WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:02.320 The bus conductor regarded them coolly. 00:02.360 --> 00:04.680 ''Where have you been? On the moon?'' 00:04.720 --> 00:08.280 Ian grinned. ''No, but you're getting warm.'' 00:08.320 --> 00:11.400 Barbara prodded him in the arm. ''Shh,'' she said, 00:11.440 --> 00:13.600 and then started laughing. 00:13.640 --> 00:15.680 Ian laughed with her. 00:15.720 --> 00:18.960 After all their time with the Doctor, they were home. 00:21.000 --> 00:23.760 The important thing about Ian and Barbara as traditional heroes 00:23.800 --> 00:26.440 when the series starts is that the Doctor isn't. 00:26.440 --> 00:31.720 The Doctor is a strange, weird, rascally amoral character, 00:31.760 --> 00:33.720 and we don't know what to make of him. 00:33.760 --> 00:37.000 Ian and Barbara have a very important role in being the moral centre. 00:37.040 --> 00:39.160 In the entire time that they're in Doctor Who, 00:39.200 --> 00:41.240 we never have cause to question them. 00:41.280 --> 00:44.240 The Doctor, he'll land them somewhere, have no idea where they are, 00:44.280 --> 00:47.440 will get himself caught up in something or get them locked out of the ship, 00:47.480 --> 00:49.320 and they're the ones who have to sort it out. 00:49.360 --> 00:54.960 Jackie Hill and Billy Russell were the most professional 00:54.960 --> 00:58.640 and the most lovable people I think I have ever worked with. 00:58.680 --> 01:02.640 When the TARDIS opened, those people had to come out 01:02.680 --> 01:06.080 and immediately go on some sort of childish exploration. 01:06.120 --> 01:11.280 They were able to assume a simplicity of manner 01:11.320 --> 01:13.360 without being simple themselves. 01:13.400 --> 01:14.960 What's important about Ian and Barbara 01:15.000 --> 01:17.360 is they teach the Doctor to have responsibility. 01:17.400 --> 01:20.640 He's a man who spends his time gadding around having a nice time. 01:20.680 --> 01:23.360 Whenever anything gets difficult, he runs away to his spaceship 01:23.360 --> 01:26.040 and goes to somewhere else. They make him a better person. 01:26.080 --> 01:30.040 And everything that follows in Doctor Who is as a result of their influence. 01:31.720 --> 01:34.280 Barbara, at her best, is the Aztecs. 01:34.320 --> 01:36.400 From start to finish, that's her story. 01:36.440 --> 01:38.520 She is magnificent in it. 01:38.560 --> 01:43.040 The Doctor gives his reasons why they mustn't get involved, 01:43.080 --> 01:45.200 why they can't change history, not one line. 01:45.240 --> 01:46.840 One last appeal. 01:46.880 --> 01:50.360 What you are trying to do is utterly impossible. 01:50.400 --> 01:52.280 I know. Believe me. 01:52.280 --> 01:53.400 I know! 01:53.440 --> 01:56.720 And Barbara says no to him and then says, 01:56.760 --> 01:58.240 I'm a god. 01:58.280 --> 01:59.800 Not Barbara. 01:59.840 --> 02:01.400 You're Tarksa. 02:01.440 --> 02:05.960 She wasn't the sort of person who you felt, er... 02:06.000 --> 02:08.360 you could dismiss at all. 02:08.400 --> 02:11.680 The moment in The Edge Of Destruction where Barbara rounds on the Doctor 02:11.720 --> 02:14.960 and says, you should be on your knees in gratitude to us. 02:15.000 --> 02:17.960 It is the first time that either Ian or Barbara 02:18.000 --> 02:20.120 actually put their foot down and say, stop. 02:20.160 --> 02:21.440 How dare you! 02:21.440 --> 02:23.000 How dare you! 02:23.040 --> 02:24.800 Do you realise, you stupid old man, 02:24.840 --> 02:26.800 that you'd have died in the Cave Of Skulls 02:26.840 --> 02:28.400 if Ian hadn't made fire for you? 02:28.440 --> 02:30.720 Barbara's at her best when she tells the Doctor no. 02:30.760 --> 02:31.920 HE COUGHS 02:31.960 --> 02:34.320 There's only a few more feet, Doctor. 02:34.360 --> 02:38.680 She's coughing and struggling with somebody and they're being gassed 02:38.720 --> 02:41.280 and she's pulling him along and then they pass out 02:41.320 --> 02:46.200 and then she gets him up and it's very like Jackie, 02:46.240 --> 02:47.720 that she sort of suddenly says, 02:47.760 --> 02:49.320 now, come on, we're going to do it. 02:49.320 --> 02:52.000 And then, boom! You know? It's marvellous. 02:52.040 --> 02:53.560 In The Dalek Invasion Of Earth, 02:53.600 --> 02:57.000 Barbara gives the history lesson to the Daleks and is making it up. 02:57.040 --> 03:00.000 As in the case of the Indian Mutiny, which I'm sure... 03:00.040 --> 03:03.920 Indian Mutiny? We are the masters of India. 03:03.960 --> 03:05.720 I was talking about Red Indians. 03:05.760 --> 03:08.560 And what's great about that is we know she's a history teacher 03:08.600 --> 03:11.280 and it rewards anybody who knows the bits of history 03:11.320 --> 03:12.600 that she's talking about. 03:12.640 --> 03:16.120 General Lee and the 5th Cavalry are already forming up 03:16.160 --> 03:18.120 to attack from the north side of the crater. 03:18.120 --> 03:19.680 The second wave, Hannibal's forces, 03:19.720 --> 03:21.680 will of course come in from the southern Alps. 03:21.720 --> 03:23.880 The third wave... Attention! Attention! 03:23.920 --> 03:27.360 Is Barbara using what's at her disposal to defeat the Daleks 03:27.400 --> 03:29.480 or battle the Daleks and confuse them? 03:32.000 --> 03:33.720 I was, you would say, the... 03:35.480 --> 03:37.880 ..the dashing action man. 03:37.920 --> 03:42.000 That was my sort of little niche, but I did do other things. 03:42.040 --> 03:43.720 Ian's also a traditional hero 03:43.760 --> 03:46.120 because he's the one that does the fighting. 03:46.120 --> 03:48.200 Whenever there's a call for fighting to be done, 03:48.240 --> 03:49.800 Ian can do that stuff. 03:49.840 --> 03:55.080 My two favourite bits of Ian Chesterton's character, 03:55.120 --> 03:58.040 I think one is in the Daleks where he tells the Tharls 03:58.080 --> 03:59.520 that they must stand up and fight. 03:59.560 --> 04:01.280 So there is something you'll fight for? 04:01.320 --> 04:03.120 He is the one who will unite the rebels 04:03.160 --> 04:05.080 and they will fight the monsters. 04:05.120 --> 04:07.120 It's where he's not like that, 04:07.160 --> 04:09.200 where things become much more interesting, 04:09.240 --> 04:10.800 where he lets his hair down. 04:10.840 --> 04:13.560 And I think my favourite example of that 04:13.600 --> 04:15.280 is when he's dancing in the chase, 04:15.280 --> 04:19.440 because it's completely unlike the Ian we know. 04:19.480 --> 04:21.520 It comes out of left field completely. 04:21.560 --> 04:24.640 We know that he likes his pop music from the very first episode 04:24.680 --> 04:27.200 and he knows about John Smith and the common men, 04:27.240 --> 04:29.880 but Ian dancing like an embarrassing dad 04:29.920 --> 04:32.360 is a side of him we've never seen before. 04:32.400 --> 04:35.880 I sometimes have to watch an episode with my children, 04:35.920 --> 04:38.400 but it's always a painful business for me 04:38.440 --> 04:40.840 because they're mocking me so much. 04:40.880 --> 04:42.560 It lasts about ten minutes, 04:42.560 --> 04:45.320 and scream and laugh and everything. 04:45.360 --> 04:48.280 Oh, look at that wall wobbling! Dad! 04:48.320 --> 04:52.000 I think they have a grudging respect for it, you know. 04:52.040 --> 04:54.240 BELL RINGS 04:54.280 --> 05:00.600 Jacqueline and William Russell were very reliable actors 05:00.640 --> 05:04.600 and they probably saved the day quite a number of times 05:04.640 --> 05:07.360 when William Hartnell would go off script. 05:07.400 --> 05:09.480 You'll end up as a couple of burnt cinders 05:09.520 --> 05:11.840 flying around in bins in space! 05:11.840 --> 05:14.440 They were very supportive of Bill Hartnell, 05:14.480 --> 05:16.080 who, by the end of The Chase, 05:16.120 --> 05:18.760 didn't know whether he was chased or chasing. 05:18.800 --> 05:21.680 He was a very tired man and he was already beginning, 05:21.720 --> 05:24.760 beginning to show signs of the illness 05:24.800 --> 05:28.080 that would kill him, unfortunately. 05:28.120 --> 05:30.520 He knew the overall pattern. 05:30.560 --> 05:33.040 He knew where he had to be and what he had to do. 05:33.080 --> 05:37.160 Sometimes he would fluff his way through the text. 05:37.200 --> 05:39.680 Yes, but I don't understand where the light comes from. 05:39.680 --> 05:43.760 Oh, I think that might be just some fluorescent substance 05:43.800 --> 05:45.160 in the walls. 05:46.480 --> 05:47.480 Pest! 05:47.520 --> 05:52.480 But Bill and Jackie were able to support him 05:52.520 --> 05:54.760 and never make him look foolish. 05:54.800 --> 05:56.640 And they did that with consummate love 05:56.680 --> 05:58.440 and they did it all the way through. 05:58.480 --> 06:01.280 But one would always help the other actor 06:01.320 --> 06:06.040 if you could see that he was just a little bit unsure. 06:06.080 --> 06:08.080 All that would obviously add to the tension, 06:08.080 --> 06:12.240 because, as I say, we were doing it without any stops. 06:12.280 --> 06:15.800 We were going from start to finish like a live show. 06:15.840 --> 06:20.360 And if anything did go wrong, if somebody forgot lines, 06:20.400 --> 06:23.560 you had to quickly look and see where they were picking up. 06:23.600 --> 06:26.600 Up there in the gallery, you were sweating blood, 06:26.640 --> 06:30.800 and when an actor goes wrong, and Billy went wrong so often, 06:30.840 --> 06:33.520 and you're very quietly and beautifully, 06:33.560 --> 06:35.320 your PA to your left would say, 06:35.320 --> 06:38.520 he's off text, I don't know what's happening, he's off text, 06:38.560 --> 06:41.240 you're on camera three, and you'd just pray. 06:41.280 --> 06:42.360 What else could you do? 06:42.400 --> 06:43.480 Hm, astonishing. 06:43.520 --> 06:47.120 In all my travels, I've never come across anything like this before. 06:47.160 --> 06:49.000 However, Susan wasn't harmed anyway. 06:49.040 --> 06:50.920 She was a bit frightened at losing her shoes, 06:50.960 --> 06:52.960 but she's gone back to the ship for another pair. 06:53.000 --> 06:54.720 Yes, and if you'd had your shoes on, my boy, 06:54.760 --> 06:56.160 you could have lent her hers. 06:56.200 --> 06:58.120 You mustn't get sloppy in your habits, you know. 06:58.160 --> 07:02.440 And the astonishing thing is that Jackie and Bill came to his rescue. 07:02.440 --> 07:09.240 If they had not so done, we would not have got Doctor Who recorded. 07:09.280 --> 07:12.360 And they stayed like that right the way through to the end. 07:12.400 --> 07:14.560 I think at the end, they were quite glad to go. 07:14.600 --> 07:15.680 They'd had enough. 07:17.840 --> 07:20.200 I've always found it difficult to stay in the same job 07:20.240 --> 07:21.920 longer than about... 07:21.960 --> 07:24.400 I've never managed two years, but... 07:24.440 --> 07:26.680 It is very difficult, I find. 07:26.720 --> 07:30.320 I want to move on all the time, so I want to change. 07:30.320 --> 07:32.480 But that's it by nature. 07:32.520 --> 07:34.080 Writing out Ian and Barbara... 07:36.520 --> 07:39.960 ..was, I think, somewhat long overdue. 07:44.200 --> 07:49.480 They all, by that time, had felt that they'd done their stint. 07:49.520 --> 07:52.680 So, although there was a certain nostalgia, 07:52.720 --> 07:55.640 we all felt a sense of déjà vu 07:55.680 --> 07:58.600 every time we came to those last studios, 07:58.600 --> 08:03.600 that we were battling against odds and not always winning. 08:03.640 --> 08:05.440 And that's never a nice feeling. 08:05.480 --> 08:08.360 And I think both of them felt enough is enough. 08:08.400 --> 08:10.600 I was quite relieved when Jackie said, 08:10.640 --> 08:12.680 I'm thinking about it too. 08:12.720 --> 08:14.440 And then we had to face Bill. 08:14.480 --> 08:15.840 Would the Doctor take us? 08:17.280 --> 08:18.480 Let's ask him. 08:18.520 --> 08:21.520 I thought Bill would be upset and cross. 08:21.560 --> 08:22.640 He was. 08:22.680 --> 08:24.440 HE LAUGHS 08:24.480 --> 08:27.880 And he would be, you know, he wouldn't understand. 08:27.880 --> 08:29.680 HE LAUGHS 08:29.720 --> 08:33.240 And the scene that takes place at the end of the chase, 08:33.280 --> 08:34.680 when he really gets angry... 08:34.720 --> 08:37.600 How dare you, young man? How dare you, sir? 08:37.640 --> 08:41.160 And you can see he is very angry and very disappointed. 08:41.200 --> 08:44.200 That was very much like what happened. 08:44.240 --> 08:46.400 He couldn't understand. 08:46.440 --> 08:49.240 You know, he said things like, 08:49.280 --> 08:51.400 I don't understand you, he said. 08:51.440 --> 08:56.200 You know, here we are, we've got a wonderful job, 08:56.200 --> 08:59.120 a great chief, everything's going well. 08:59.160 --> 09:00.800 Why do you want to leave it? 09:00.840 --> 09:04.000 You know, it was difficult to explain to him 09:04.040 --> 09:06.560 that I felt, you know, I had other things to do 09:06.600 --> 09:09.000 in the theatre and life and everything, 09:09.040 --> 09:10.360 and I wanted to get on. 09:10.400 --> 09:13.840 And I thought I'd devoted enough time 09:13.880 --> 09:18.600 to being a swashbuckling action man. 09:18.640 --> 09:22.400 Verity was very understanding about things. 09:22.440 --> 09:25.280 She was about to leave herself. 09:25.280 --> 09:30.320 And she was going, and I was going, and Jackie was going, 09:30.360 --> 09:33.320 and, you know, one felt it was a sort of change 09:33.360 --> 09:34.600 that was going to happen. 09:34.640 --> 09:36.680 When Susan leaves, the next episode, 09:36.720 --> 09:39.480 they introduce Susan's surrogate, which is Vicky. 09:39.520 --> 09:44.080 When Ian and Barbara leave, there's a very different change, 09:44.120 --> 09:48.960 because they don't need to replace them as moral characters. 09:49.000 --> 09:50.680 They don't need that moral purpose, 09:50.720 --> 09:52.680 because that's what the Doctor has now become. 09:52.680 --> 09:55.360 He is the one taking the fight to the monsters. 09:55.400 --> 09:57.560 BELL RINGS 09:57.600 --> 09:58.600 Ian? 09:59.640 --> 10:01.440 Do you realise we could get home? 10:01.480 --> 10:04.800 The section at the end, she just turns and says, 10:06.840 --> 10:08.600 I think I'd like to go home. 10:08.640 --> 10:12.200 Asks me if I would, and I hadn't thought about it, 10:12.240 --> 10:16.480 but I think I would, yes, I'd like to go home. 10:16.520 --> 10:20.760 And so it was done very deftly, I thought. 10:20.760 --> 10:23.560 It's so lightly done. 10:23.600 --> 10:25.960 I mean, it's not made it to great drama. 10:26.000 --> 10:30.920 Dougie Camfield did all that still stuff in Trafalgar Square 10:30.960 --> 10:33.800 and riding on the buses. 10:33.840 --> 10:38.280 We had a very enjoyable time doing it. 10:38.320 --> 10:40.520 I think one of the successful things about The Chase 10:40.560 --> 10:43.880 was the stills we shot at the end, 10:43.920 --> 10:49.200 when their rejoicing was totally natural, unconfined, 10:49.200 --> 10:51.760 and you saw them back in the real world, 10:51.800 --> 10:56.880 and able maybe to pursue a more serious theatrical path. 10:56.920 --> 10:58.880 BELL RINGS 10:58.920 --> 11:00.560 I don't think that they were in love. 11:00.600 --> 11:03.000 I think they were very fond of each other. 11:03.040 --> 11:07.920 But I didn't ever envisage them marrying myself, 11:07.960 --> 11:10.720 and I'm sure Jackie didn't either. 11:10.760 --> 11:14.240 There was a feeling of regret and of sorrow 11:14.280 --> 11:17.920 mixed with an enormous release from them, 11:17.920 --> 11:21.000 and of me too, because after that I went off and did other things, 11:21.040 --> 11:24.000 you know, and that was time for us all to leave. 11:24.040 --> 11:26.160 Find your pet! 11:26.200 --> 11:27.200 So did I. 11:27.240 --> 11:31.640 I don't think I feel ever, 11:31.680 --> 11:34.840 when the last curtain comes down and everything like that, 11:34.880 --> 11:37.840 that there is a great regret. 11:37.880 --> 11:42.480 All these things were fun and good in the time that I did them, 11:42.520 --> 11:44.400 but I never felt, 11:44.400 --> 11:49.400 oh, how awful to be going. I didn't feel like that about it, no. 11:49.440 --> 11:50.600 I shall miss them. 11:53.320 --> 11:54.640 Yes, I shall miss them. 11:56.960 --> 11:58.280 Silly old fusspots. 12:01.800 --> 12:04.360 Come along, my dear, it's time we rode off. 12:04.400 --> 12:08.840 They walked down the street, smiling, laughing and holding hands. 12:08.840 --> 12:14.840 There are fewer men wearing ties, said Barbara, and the skirts are shorter, 12:14.880 --> 12:15.880 grinned Ian. 12:15.920 --> 12:17.120 It's different. 12:17.160 --> 12:19.320 The doctor said it would be, said Ian. 12:19.360 --> 12:22.520 Come on, she said, there's somebody waiting for us. 12:22.560 --> 12:26.240 They stopped outside a simple, unremarkable house, 12:26.280 --> 12:28.520 and Barbara squeezed his hand. 12:28.560 --> 12:30.320 She rang the bell. 12:30.360 --> 12:34.320 After a moment, a small, elderly woman opened the door. 12:34.320 --> 12:39.080 She peered up at them and her mouth fell open. 12:39.120 --> 12:42.080 Barbara scooped the woman up in her arms. 12:42.120 --> 12:45.920 Ian stood back, giving them space. 12:45.960 --> 12:49.760 After a long time, the women withdrew, 12:49.800 --> 12:54.000 both holding on to each other, both weeping with joy. 12:54.040 --> 12:56.120 The old woman regarded Ian, 12:56.160 --> 13:00.080 and he could see Barbara's face in her features. 13:00.080 --> 13:04.360 You're the one who took her from me, she said. 13:04.400 --> 13:08.240 Mum, said Barbara, this is Ian. 13:08.240 --> 13:32.240 He's brought me home.