WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:22.280 Well, I think the character of Jenny was tough on the surface. 00:22.280 --> 00:27.520 She had made herself be tough because of what had happened to her and to her family, but 00:27.520 --> 00:33.320 that really underneath she was still very hurt and she was vulnerable and upset, but 00:33.320 --> 00:39.640 she felt she had to be tough in order to get something done and fight the Daleks and get 00:39.640 --> 00:42.000 her own back for what they'd done to her. 00:42.000 --> 00:48.560 Well, Tyler, it's been suggested to me that he was an action hero, but I don't, no, I 00:48.560 --> 00:50.480 don't think that's true. 00:50.480 --> 00:57.360 I think he was a very ordinary man who was caught up in some quite extraordinary situations 00:57.360 --> 01:02.360 and did what he had to do. 01:02.360 --> 01:05.280 He was a pragmatist. 01:05.280 --> 01:11.960 It's very difficult from thinking about it, no, good and bad don't come into it. 01:11.960 --> 01:19.160 He was an everyman in a way, caught up in these terrifying situations and, I mean, for 01:19.160 --> 01:27.400 instance, he knifed to death one of the robot humans, human robots, and shot another one 01:27.400 --> 01:36.840 at quite close range, but he looked after people, but he looked after them in a purely 01:36.840 --> 01:38.680 practical way. 01:38.680 --> 01:40.440 It had to be done, so he did it. 01:40.440 --> 01:42.280 He doesn't show affection. 01:42.280 --> 01:46.280 He doesn't show hatred. 01:46.280 --> 01:50.360 I think it's implied that he's lost his family because there's no one around him in the meeting 01:50.360 --> 01:51.520 rooms. 01:51.520 --> 01:52.520 So he's not like Dortmund. 01:52.520 --> 01:57.400 He doesn't want to be a leader, but he wants to survive. 01:57.400 --> 02:01.800 I suppose it is fair to say I was the love interest in the programme, but I think there'd 02:01.800 --> 02:10.120 be an awful lot of young girls would be very unhappy about the fact that I kept the Doctor's 02:10.120 --> 02:14.960 granddaughter on Earth because they would look forward to identifying with her throughout 02:14.960 --> 02:16.480 the rest of the series. 02:16.480 --> 02:21.640 Wells, I think Mr. Wells, he was probably called at the time, I don't really remember 02:21.640 --> 02:29.720 it all that well, was a West Country farmer who'd been captured by the Daleks. 02:29.720 --> 02:34.720 And so as I recall, I played him with a West Country accent like that, and he was a fairly 02:34.720 --> 02:36.720 fly sort of a character. 02:36.720 --> 02:42.760 Because one didn't do a Stanislavski rundown or analysis of a character like that, you 02:42.760 --> 02:49.000 just sort of got on and did it. 02:49.000 --> 02:55.840 I think possibly I got the job because I had a lot of enthusiasm for the idea of playing 02:55.840 --> 03:01.800 a character in that situation, which was, they were, I don't know how you'd put it, 03:01.800 --> 03:05.120 they were under terrific pressure from the Daleks. 03:05.120 --> 03:07.360 I knew the director, Richard Martin. 03:07.360 --> 03:10.660 I was in repertory with him in Cleethorpes, I think it was. 03:10.660 --> 03:13.200 And I got this contract for six weeks. 03:13.200 --> 03:17.200 And I thought, oh, oh, he must have thought I was a really good actor. 03:17.200 --> 03:25.920 So I turn up for filming on the Sunday, for which we got £25 for one day's filming. 03:25.920 --> 03:29.000 And I said, well, Richard, it's very kind of you to give me a contract like this. 03:29.000 --> 03:30.320 I don't know what a Dalek is. 03:30.320 --> 03:35.360 And he said, well, we've chosen you because you're so small, we thought you could get 03:35.360 --> 03:41.040 into one of these, and sort of pointed to a Dalek. 03:41.040 --> 03:43.800 And one was a bit taken aback, really. 03:43.800 --> 03:47.920 I'd done a few walk-ons, not for the BBC, but for other companies. 03:47.920 --> 03:51.180 And then I said, hang on, I'm not doing this anymore. 03:51.180 --> 03:54.440 It's got to be speaking part or nothing. 03:54.440 --> 03:59.480 And so I was offered this Doctor Who one episode. 03:59.480 --> 04:03.600 And during the course of the week, I saw the scripts for the next two episodes. 04:03.600 --> 04:06.440 And my character, of course, was not in it. 04:06.440 --> 04:12.000 So I said to the director, what's happened to Farmer, Mr. Wells? 04:12.000 --> 04:16.400 And he said, oh, well, I do need someone to lead the revolt against the Daleks. 04:16.400 --> 04:18.240 Are you doing anything the next two weeks? 04:18.240 --> 04:23.880 And I said, no, no, no, I'm actually free. 04:23.880 --> 04:27.480 And so I talked myself into doing three episodes. 04:27.480 --> 04:34.920 But as far as what it was like, I mean, this was my first television acting role. 04:34.920 --> 04:39.280 So I just sort of did it as best I could, took the money, and ran. 04:39.280 --> 04:47.480 Richard Martin, or Dickie Martin, we called him, I knew him at the Belgrade Coventry, 04:47.480 --> 04:49.720 the Belgrade Theatre Coventry. 04:49.720 --> 04:57.040 And he had been an actor there, and he gradually moved over to directing during his time there. 04:57.040 --> 05:02.520 And he remembered me and very kindly asked me to be in it. 05:02.520 --> 05:07.160 My own approach to a part is just to read it and read it and read it and read it. 05:07.160 --> 05:09.600 And I'm very fortunate with my memory. 05:09.600 --> 05:14.640 So by the time I've done that for a few days, usually it's all in there. 05:14.640 --> 05:20.880 But, you know, in the bath, on the loo, whatever, you read it, read it, read it, and do it aloud, 05:20.880 --> 05:23.120 and drive your wife crazy and all that. 05:23.120 --> 05:24.120 But it goes in. 05:24.120 --> 05:31.640 And when you do that, to me, something happens in your mind, and ideas come out. 05:31.640 --> 05:38.000 I mean, there's just one shot as Tyler, when there's been some action, and he's in this 05:38.000 --> 05:44.400 underground room with Dortmund and the rest, and they're discussing what to do. 05:44.400 --> 05:46.280 And everyone's being very frantic. 05:46.280 --> 05:48.080 I'm speaking now because it's objective. 05:48.080 --> 05:51.560 You know, I've just seen the tape. 05:51.560 --> 06:03.560 And Tyler's just leaning against a wall, listening, quite transparent listening, but conserving 06:03.560 --> 06:05.760 energy. 06:05.760 --> 06:09.520 And I don't know where that came, it just, you know, because everybody else is rushing 06:09.520 --> 06:12.080 around saying, we must do this, we must do that. 06:12.080 --> 06:16.360 And I'm sure, you know, Richard Martin said, what do you, how do you feel about this? 06:16.360 --> 06:21.440 And I said, I just want to, you know, when in doubt, do nothing. 06:21.440 --> 06:30.120 I found out afterwards that Jenny had been considered as a replacement for Carol Ann 06:30.120 --> 06:32.920 Ford as Susan. 06:32.920 --> 06:35.120 But they took time to decide. 06:35.120 --> 06:41.880 I do remember that when Dickie Martin phoned me about it, he said, I can't actually offer 06:41.880 --> 06:42.880 it to you yet. 06:42.880 --> 06:48.920 He was kind of checking whether I'd be interested and whether I'd be able to do it, because 06:48.920 --> 06:52.120 they haven't quite decided how they want it done. 06:52.120 --> 06:56.760 Do they want, well, he said a child, but I think he meant kind of like an early teenager, 06:56.760 --> 06:58.840 or do they want somebody grown up? 06:58.840 --> 07:00.040 So I had to wait. 07:00.040 --> 07:03.440 So I suppose that's what they were deciding then. 07:03.440 --> 07:10.840 Richard as a director, he was lovely, because when you get directors who've been actors, 07:10.840 --> 07:13.280 they go one of two ways. 07:13.280 --> 07:19.600 They either resent the fact they've not made it as an actor, and they become very hard 07:19.600 --> 07:26.120 on actors, or they do what Richard did, which was remember what it was like to be an actor 07:26.120 --> 07:27.320 and treat actors that way. 07:27.320 --> 07:28.320 And that's what he did. 07:28.320 --> 07:29.320 He was lovely. 07:29.320 --> 07:34.760 He had one fault, which was he was too nice. 07:34.760 --> 07:42.520 I met Jackie, again, I called her Jackie, on that show, and she was terrifically kind 07:42.520 --> 07:44.200 and helpful and friendly. 07:44.200 --> 07:47.240 And I really liked her very much, and we got on very well. 07:47.240 --> 07:53.320 And I found her very helpful, because she had been in the series from the beginning. 07:53.320 --> 07:59.600 She knew how it all ran and what the things were that you looked out for and everything. 07:59.600 --> 08:07.280 And she was very generous in helping me and sort of being friendly and saying, well, if 08:07.280 --> 08:09.620 I was you, such and such kind of thing. 08:09.620 --> 08:15.880 But it wasn't until a few years later that she and her husband moved into a house opposite 08:15.880 --> 08:17.160 to us. 08:17.160 --> 08:22.760 And from then on, we became very great friends, right up until the time of her death. 08:22.760 --> 08:28.440 And she died 10 years ago next month, which is unbelievable to me. 08:28.440 --> 08:33.680 We had daughters who were literally a few days apart from each other in age. 08:33.680 --> 08:35.120 They went to the same schools. 08:35.120 --> 08:38.640 We shared the car run. 08:38.640 --> 08:42.000 We used to go to suppers with each other. 08:42.000 --> 08:45.040 We did the OU together, the Open University. 08:45.040 --> 08:46.120 We started that. 08:46.120 --> 08:51.120 When our children grew up, she said, oh, God, what am I going to do? 08:51.120 --> 08:52.600 Now John's going away as well. 08:52.600 --> 08:53.600 That was her son. 08:53.600 --> 08:57.040 And I said, well, I've been thinking of doing the Open University. 08:57.040 --> 08:58.920 And she said, right. 08:58.920 --> 09:04.160 And being Jackie, I mean, we were signed up within about three days, because she had this 09:04.160 --> 09:08.680 wonderful sort of bossy quality. 09:08.680 --> 09:09.800 She was really great. 09:09.800 --> 09:16.760 I remember her once saying to me, well, when you've found out the best way to do things, 09:16.760 --> 09:19.880 it does seem a shame not to tell everybody else. 09:19.880 --> 09:22.920 And I really loved her. 09:22.920 --> 09:23.920 And I still miss her. 09:23.920 --> 09:25.640 I still miss her very much. 09:25.640 --> 09:26.640 She was a great girl. 09:26.640 --> 09:33.080 Well, Jacqueline Hill was just so beautiful and so charming, always in good humor. 09:33.080 --> 09:39.520 My daughter and her partner, who were watching an episode, an old episode, said, God, she 09:39.520 --> 09:40.640 is so beautiful. 09:40.640 --> 09:41.640 And she was. 09:41.640 --> 09:42.640 She was. 09:42.640 --> 09:43.640 She was just lovely. 09:43.640 --> 09:46.000 And Carol Ann Fobb was delightful. 09:46.000 --> 09:48.760 I'd worked with Carol Ann before in Expressive Bongo. 09:48.760 --> 09:50.560 She'd been my partner in that. 09:50.560 --> 09:51.560 So I knew her very well. 09:51.560 --> 09:53.760 And she was a very good actress. 09:53.760 --> 09:56.320 And of course, William Hartnell. 09:56.320 --> 09:57.320 Lots of good actors there. 09:57.320 --> 09:58.320 Oh, and William Russell, of course. 09:58.320 --> 09:59.320 Lovely actor. 09:59.320 --> 10:03.720 So, yeah, we had a happy time, really. 10:03.720 --> 10:10.560 Bill Hartnell was, he was, I think he was a very fine actor. 10:10.560 --> 10:17.760 And he'd done some wonderful work in things like The Warehead and in Carry On Sergeant. 10:17.760 --> 10:21.760 But he was quite quirky about his rights. 10:21.760 --> 10:27.080 And we rehearsed in a room, which was London Transport Training. 10:27.080 --> 10:30.520 And it was the London Transport Training Centre. 10:30.520 --> 10:34.280 And this room, I think you could have got a thousand people in there. 10:34.280 --> 10:39.200 And there were hundreds of identical chairs. 10:39.200 --> 10:44.200 And he had his name on the back of one of these chairs. 10:44.200 --> 10:49.280 Jackie warned me very early on, don't go and sit in his chair, because he will not like 10:49.280 --> 10:50.280 it. 10:50.280 --> 10:54.120 And I did notice that even when he wasn't there, you know, if he hadn't been called 10:54.120 --> 10:57.800 into rehearsal or something, that nobody sat in that chair. 10:57.800 --> 10:58.800 I went to the props department. 10:58.800 --> 10:59.800 I was feeling very wicked. 10:59.800 --> 11:05.800 I went to the props department and got them to make one for each of the cast. 11:05.800 --> 11:06.800 And he was furious. 11:06.800 --> 11:09.120 I mean, he really was furious. 11:09.120 --> 11:11.760 He somehow felt his position was being undermined. 11:11.760 --> 11:14.800 Of course, we all had our names on our chairs. 11:14.800 --> 11:21.040 For me, the good thing about working with William Hartnell was he was always the character 11:21.040 --> 11:22.880 of the doctor. 11:22.880 --> 11:26.200 And off screen, he was the character of the doctor. 11:26.200 --> 11:30.200 So it was good. 11:30.200 --> 11:36.680 It helps the actor to, the actor, me, but it does, it helps you to react and relate 11:36.680 --> 11:39.200 to him in the correct manner for the program. 11:39.200 --> 11:40.840 And that's very important. 11:40.840 --> 11:45.440 I was commuting between London and Madrid. 11:45.440 --> 11:52.400 I was doing Doctor Who and Doctor Zhivago, which was my first proper film. 11:52.400 --> 11:55.360 And he said, what's all this? 11:55.360 --> 11:56.360 Coming in from Heathrow with all your luggage? 11:56.360 --> 11:57.360 What are you doing? 11:57.360 --> 11:58.360 What have you been doing? 11:58.360 --> 12:02.360 And I said, well, I've got a nice little part on Doctor Zhivago. 12:02.360 --> 12:08.000 And he said, oh, oh, they offered me a wonderful part in Zhivago, and I couldn't do it because 12:08.000 --> 12:09.000 of this. 12:09.000 --> 12:17.160 Which I thought was, it was sweet, but there was also something a little bit bitter there. 12:17.160 --> 12:22.480 I quite frankly found him a bit frightening and a bit grumpy, and I just kept clear of 12:22.480 --> 12:25.640 him, to be honest with you. 12:25.640 --> 12:31.040 I liked Bill Hartnell's portrayal of the character. 12:31.040 --> 12:37.560 He was wonderfully detailed and eccentric and true, and very true. 12:37.560 --> 12:38.560 And I got on well with him. 12:38.560 --> 12:45.680 And we were, I think we were driving after rehearsal, I think we were going to a costumer's 12:45.680 --> 12:46.680 or whatever. 12:46.680 --> 12:49.520 We were in a car, and we went on Berkeley Square. 12:49.520 --> 12:52.920 We must have been going to Morris Angel, one of those places, costumers. 12:52.920 --> 12:57.880 And we were driving through the road between Berkeley Square and Bond Street, and it happened 12:57.880 --> 13:07.760 to be where Hartnell, who was the royal family tailor, or was the wrong word, costumer, or 13:07.760 --> 13:08.760 designer. 13:08.760 --> 13:10.760 And as we passed, Bill said, you see that? 13:10.760 --> 13:11.760 That's my cousin up there. 13:11.760 --> 13:15.400 That's my cousin, you know, tailor, yes. 13:15.400 --> 13:18.880 William Hartnell was a perfectionist. 13:18.880 --> 13:23.600 So if at some time he didn't seem in the best of humours, it was because he was worrying 13:23.600 --> 13:24.600 about a problem. 13:24.600 --> 13:30.560 And two, he was much older than the rest of us, and he had those lines to get under his 13:30.560 --> 13:31.600 belt. 13:31.600 --> 13:33.360 So he was a very busy man. 13:33.360 --> 13:35.000 I always found him most charming. 13:35.000 --> 13:40.520 Oh, we used to get betting tips from the crew, and they always said, no, Bill, no, I don't 13:40.520 --> 13:44.160 want to give you a tip, Bill, because, oh, come on, come on, come on, you must know people, 13:44.160 --> 13:45.160 you must know people. 13:45.160 --> 13:46.160 And they'd give him tips. 13:46.160 --> 13:49.000 And if the horse didn't win, he went for them. 13:49.000 --> 13:51.400 He really went to blinder for them. 13:51.400 --> 13:53.760 Well, I always got on very well with Bill. 13:53.760 --> 13:54.760 Not everybody did. 13:54.760 --> 13:59.440 He could be a bristly old character, you know. 13:59.440 --> 14:02.040 I got on very well with him, yeah. 14:02.040 --> 14:07.080 And I managed to handle him all right, apart from one occasion when he came to dinner one 14:07.080 --> 14:08.080 evening. 14:08.080 --> 14:13.680 And my wife had gone to a lot of trouble to lay on a very good dinner. 14:13.680 --> 14:15.520 And he arrived something like two hours late. 14:15.520 --> 14:17.560 We'd given up all hope. 14:17.560 --> 14:22.640 I mean, the dinner was pretty well burned to a cinder and everything, you see. 14:22.640 --> 14:26.800 And eventually there was a knock, knock, knock, knock, knock at the door, you see. 14:26.800 --> 14:29.640 And we went to the door, and there was Bill. 14:29.640 --> 14:33.800 And he greeted us by saying, why can't you put a proper bloody number on your door? 14:33.800 --> 14:39.360 He'd been driving around for two hours, apparently. 14:39.360 --> 14:42.560 So we sat down at this mess of food that was left. 14:42.560 --> 14:46.000 And then he went on till 4 o'clock in the morning. 14:46.000 --> 14:47.000 We couldn't get rid of him then. 14:47.000 --> 14:52.320 But you see, the funny part, he got me drinking scotch. 14:52.320 --> 14:55.120 That's one of the happiest memories I have of him. 14:55.120 --> 14:57.680 I used to drink gin until I met Bill. 14:57.680 --> 15:04.520 He told me scotch was better for me, so I started drinking scotch. 15:04.520 --> 15:09.360 I can't remember which way round it was, but we went to Trafalgar Square. 15:09.360 --> 15:10.920 And I think that was first. 15:10.920 --> 15:15.520 And I was amazed that there were so many people knocking about kind of thing. 15:15.520 --> 15:20.760 But I think they were young people who had kind of stayed up in town overnight and were 15:20.760 --> 15:23.280 sort of wandering about Trafalgar Square. 15:23.280 --> 15:24.880 And they were a bit bemused about us. 15:24.880 --> 15:28.280 I don't think they were especially waiting for us to arrive or anything. 15:28.280 --> 15:30.600 And then we went down to Westminster Bridge. 15:30.600 --> 15:35.400 And that's where we had to push Alan Judd across the bridge in the wheelchair. 15:35.400 --> 15:40.160 And we had to run as though the Daleks were pursuing us. 15:40.160 --> 15:44.440 And that wheelchair was quite heavy, and with Alan Judd in it as well. 15:44.440 --> 15:47.360 You know, we really had to push it and push hard. 15:47.360 --> 15:48.360 It was freezing. 15:48.360 --> 15:50.640 It was coming up to Christmas. 15:50.640 --> 15:53.000 We'd been hanging around for a long, long time. 15:53.000 --> 15:57.320 I think we all felt in need of relieving ourselves. 15:57.320 --> 16:01.280 And there was nobody round about. 16:01.280 --> 16:03.880 Certainly there weren't any loos in Trafalgar Square. 16:03.880 --> 16:08.680 And I hit on the idea of using a grating. 16:08.680 --> 16:13.240 And it was just such a lovely picture, seeing a little queue of Daleks waiting to use a 16:13.240 --> 16:15.240 grating in Trafalgar Square. 16:15.240 --> 16:17.240 But nobody said anything. 16:17.240 --> 16:18.240 And it worked. 16:18.240 --> 16:21.880 Yes, that's the main thing, it worked. 16:21.880 --> 16:28.880 The other thing I remember, which was a location shot, was, I can't remember exactly where 16:28.880 --> 16:35.120 it was, but it was when I had to jump on the dust cart, which was moving and being driven 16:35.120 --> 16:36.840 by Jackie. 16:36.840 --> 16:39.280 And it was a very old, I mean, it was old then. 16:39.280 --> 16:43.600 I think it must have been kind of from the 30s, quite frankly, because, yes, because 16:43.600 --> 16:47.240 it was in the 60s that we did these episodes. 16:47.240 --> 16:51.360 And it was very heavy for her to drive. 16:51.360 --> 16:57.520 And she said, you do realize I can't absolutely slow down. 16:57.520 --> 16:59.880 So you know, do you think you're going to be able to jump on? 16:59.880 --> 17:02.000 And I said, yes, I think I will. 17:02.000 --> 17:05.560 And so I had to sort of leap on. 17:05.560 --> 17:07.240 And she was driving away. 17:07.240 --> 17:11.240 I thought she was splendid the way she drove this heavy old dust cart. 17:11.240 --> 17:13.720 And I leapt on and all went well, thank goodness. 17:13.720 --> 17:14.720 I rather enjoyed it. 17:14.720 --> 17:16.640 It was great fun, that. 17:16.640 --> 17:21.560 On the first day of being a Dalek, it was a bit worrying, because we had the lovely 17:21.560 --> 17:27.080 Jacqueline Hill and Anne Davies driving at us in this lorry, full tilt. 17:27.080 --> 17:32.240 So we, there were all three Daleks, I think, were across the road. 17:32.240 --> 17:35.560 And the lorry was getting nearer and nearer and nearer. 17:35.560 --> 17:39.240 And then just before she hit us, it was stopped. 17:39.240 --> 17:43.400 And I think they put an old Dalek in or something. 17:43.400 --> 17:49.760 And then the lorries went back, came in again, and crashed into the Daleks, standing there. 17:49.760 --> 17:50.760 Ching! 17:50.760 --> 17:51.760 That's quite exciting. 17:51.760 --> 17:53.360 And I'm glad I wasn't in it all the same. 17:53.360 --> 17:55.440 My hair was really dark. 17:55.440 --> 17:59.000 And I had it blonded for the production. 17:59.000 --> 18:04.840 And I think they didn't want to have two dark-haired, youngish women in it. 18:04.840 --> 18:07.560 And Carol Ann Ford's hair was dark. 18:07.560 --> 18:15.320 So when we did the exterior location scenes, I hadn't at that point had my hair altered 18:15.320 --> 18:16.560 in color. 18:16.560 --> 18:20.360 And so that had to be disguised, because we had decided on it. 18:20.360 --> 18:22.400 But I hadn't had it done. 18:22.400 --> 18:29.040 And so I had to wear this terrible balaclava-cum-pixie hat to hide my hair. 18:29.040 --> 18:31.360 And that was the reason I had it on. 18:31.360 --> 18:34.840 Well, I mean, pushing the wheelchair may have been quite tough. 18:34.840 --> 18:40.160 But that was nothing to, for instance, Robert Jewell, who was one of the Daleks. 18:40.160 --> 18:44.680 And I mean, I still don't know whether people know that there were actors inside them and 18:44.680 --> 18:50.480 that they had to push like a bicycle, it really was, inside the Dalek. 18:50.480 --> 18:53.600 And he had to come up out of the Thames. 18:53.600 --> 18:56.000 That must have been really, really tough. 18:56.000 --> 18:58.280 They did it in three shots. 18:58.280 --> 19:04.080 So what they did was to have a full Dalek under the water with a wire attached at the 19:04.080 --> 19:05.080 front. 19:05.080 --> 19:08.080 They pulled it up the ramp until it got to a certain height. 19:08.080 --> 19:11.720 The camera stopped, the machine stopped. 19:11.720 --> 19:14.960 People came down and lifted the top off very carefully so nothing would disturb. 19:14.960 --> 19:19.760 And then they lifted me, locked me inside, being careful not to shift the Dalek. 19:19.760 --> 19:20.760 And then they put the top back on again. 19:20.760 --> 19:21.760 And then they pulled it up with the wire again until it got very low and the Dalek was going 19:21.760 --> 19:22.760 like that with the eyes and things like that. 19:22.760 --> 19:23.760 And then they stopped again because it was getting close to the pulley machine with the 19:23.760 --> 19:24.760 wire on it. 19:24.760 --> 19:25.760 So they had to disconnect that and remove that out of the way so the Dalek could continue 19:25.760 --> 19:26.760 on. 19:26.760 --> 19:27.760 So everything was stopped again perfectly still. 19:27.760 --> 19:28.760 The camera was left there, the machine was left there. 19:28.760 --> 19:29.760 They disconnected everything and then they said, roll, and off we went again. 19:29.760 --> 19:30.760 Originally, the BBC said, well, we're going to have to do a bit of a re-enactment of 19:30.760 --> 19:31.760 the Daleks. 19:31.760 --> 19:32.760 And they did. 19:32.760 --> 19:33.760 And they did. 19:33.760 --> 19:34.760 And they did. 19:34.760 --> 19:35.760 And they did. 19:35.760 --> 19:36.760 And they did. 19:36.760 --> 19:37.760 And they did. 19:37.760 --> 19:38.760 And they did. 19:38.760 --> 19:39.760 And they did. 19:39.760 --> 19:54.760 And they did. 19:54.760 --> 20:09.760 And they did. 20:09.760 --> 20:27.760 And they did. 20:27.760 --> 20:42.760 And they did. 20:42.760 --> 20:57.760 And they did. 20:57.760 --> 21:12.760 And they did. 21:12.760 --> 21:25.760 And they did. 21:25.760 --> 21:31.760 And they did. 21:31.760 --> 21:37.760 And they did. 21:37.760 --> 21:43.760 And they did. 21:43.760 --> 21:45.800 you had to sort of sort out for a start. 21:45.800 --> 21:48.760 You could sit down in the Dalek, 21:48.760 --> 21:53.760 and you moved around with a bicycle chain and pedals. 21:55.400 --> 21:56.700 That's how you moved. 21:56.700 --> 21:59.280 You had a gear stick up here 21:59.280 --> 22:02.480 to sort of guide which way the wheels went. 22:03.320 --> 22:05.080 You had to be put into these things, 22:05.080 --> 22:08.420 they were very heavy, and it was like molded plywood. 22:08.420 --> 22:11.320 It was probably fiberglass or something like that. 22:11.320 --> 22:14.820 So somebody had to put the top on, 22:14.820 --> 22:17.880 then put in your various electrics. 22:17.880 --> 22:22.880 You had the eye up here, which was shifted manually. 22:24.160 --> 22:27.180 You had a gun with sparks on down here. 22:27.180 --> 22:29.980 I think there were a couple of lights on the side. 22:29.980 --> 22:32.880 And that was it. 22:32.880 --> 22:36.520 You could see, it was really quite sort of tunnel vision, 22:36.520 --> 22:37.740 you couldn't see very well, 22:37.740 --> 22:39.340 which meant that you couldn't hear very well 22:39.340 --> 22:41.440 when there were instructions on the floor. 22:42.360 --> 22:44.380 And it wasn't very comfortable. 22:44.380 --> 22:48.440 You really were sort of crunched up inside. 22:48.440 --> 22:49.620 And I'm not very big. 22:50.540 --> 22:54.420 Daleks were extremely heavy to maneuver, as I said. 22:54.420 --> 22:56.580 And there were ramps that we had to go up 22:56.580 --> 22:57.960 from time to time. 22:57.960 --> 22:59.340 And so what they did, 22:59.340 --> 23:02.540 we would sort of try and go up and fail. 23:02.540 --> 23:07.240 And there'll be a small body the other side pushing, 23:07.240 --> 23:10.800 so that, very carefully keeping out of camera, of course, 23:10.800 --> 23:13.000 making sure that we could get up all right. 23:13.000 --> 23:18.000 One of the oddest things about the three episodes 23:18.260 --> 23:22.160 that I was in was a creature called the Slyther, 23:23.200 --> 23:25.100 which was an actor, 23:25.100 --> 23:27.780 not, I remember, a particularly tall actor, 23:27.780 --> 23:29.700 dressed in a rubber suit 23:29.700 --> 23:33.600 with what looked like leaves sticking out all over him. 23:33.600 --> 23:38.460 And he had to sort of walk around slowly, growling. 23:38.460 --> 23:42.140 And he was lovely and rubbery 23:42.140 --> 23:45.380 and lots of tentacles 23:45.380 --> 23:48.500 and really quite scary for children. 23:48.500 --> 23:51.100 And he was sort of like something out of the sea. 23:52.100 --> 23:56.020 But the best part about him was that he throbbed. 23:56.020 --> 23:57.780 So you would see him round corners, 23:57.780 --> 24:02.180 just sort of about to pounce on someone, 24:02.180 --> 24:04.100 generally upsetting people. 24:04.100 --> 24:06.000 And I think the children went for it 24:06.000 --> 24:09.260 because I got lots of Christmas cards sat here saying, 24:09.260 --> 24:11.860 dear Mr. Slyther, do have a nice Christmas. 24:11.860 --> 24:14.620 Love from Rose, Fred and all the kids. 24:14.620 --> 24:18.180 Most extraordinary, but they loved all that nastiness. 24:18.180 --> 24:22.140 And it had absolutely no connection whatever with the plot. 24:22.140 --> 24:24.700 Whether it was a pet of the Daleks 24:24.700 --> 24:26.940 or whether it had dropped in from another planet, 24:26.940 --> 24:27.900 we never discovered that. 24:27.900 --> 24:30.300 And the reason was never about to say. 24:30.300 --> 24:32.900 So this thing sort of walked around growling the whole time. 24:32.900 --> 24:35.380 As far as I know, it didn't do any harm, 24:35.380 --> 24:37.580 but I have a vague feeling it may have killed 24:37.580 --> 24:41.620 a Paddy O'Connell's character in the end. 24:41.620 --> 24:44.660 But whether it ate him or not, I'm not sure. 24:44.660 --> 24:47.780 The first time the Slyther went out on screen, 24:47.780 --> 24:49.220 it was a Saturday night. 24:49.220 --> 24:54.220 And I had the Daily Mail on the phone to me straight away. 24:54.860 --> 24:56.900 Presumably it was a slow news week, 24:56.900 --> 24:59.340 but they wanted to know all about the Slyther. 24:59.340 --> 25:01.500 Well, I didn't know what to tell them really. 25:01.500 --> 25:04.460 I didn't have any photographs of the Slyther. 25:04.460 --> 25:06.580 And he didn't have any lines. 25:06.580 --> 25:08.500 And it wasn't a very big part. 25:08.500 --> 25:10.020 So they came round to the house 25:10.020 --> 25:12.220 and they tried to sort of get a story. 25:12.220 --> 25:14.180 They said, Australian of course. 25:14.180 --> 25:18.660 He said, so Nicholas, you play the Slyther. 25:18.660 --> 25:19.620 I said, that's right. 25:19.620 --> 25:21.580 He said, what does it look like exactly? 25:21.580 --> 25:24.340 And I said, well, not absolutely. 25:24.340 --> 25:25.460 I'll draw it for you. 25:25.460 --> 25:29.860 So I drew this terrible picture of this sort of sack 25:29.860 --> 25:33.140 with tentacles and trying to make it look 25:33.140 --> 25:34.620 as scary as possible. 25:34.620 --> 25:37.340 He said, oh right, yes, I'll buy that. 25:37.340 --> 25:42.340 Now, how can we sort of make this a story 25:42.580 --> 25:44.540 connected to you, Nicholas? 25:44.540 --> 25:45.740 So I said, well, I don't know. 25:45.740 --> 25:46.740 He said, got any children? 25:46.740 --> 25:49.340 I said, no, not so far. 25:49.340 --> 25:50.300 Got any animals? 25:50.300 --> 25:52.020 I said, no, no. 25:52.020 --> 25:53.820 Looking round the wharves and saw various pictures. 25:53.820 --> 25:56.500 He said, I'll see you're into art. 25:56.500 --> 25:58.780 I said, well, not really. 25:58.780 --> 26:01.980 But we went out into the garden 26:01.980 --> 26:05.220 and we took pictures of me being jolly and young 26:05.220 --> 26:07.060 and then pictures of me with a cigarette 26:07.060 --> 26:09.980 with smoke going up, looking all sinister. 26:09.980 --> 26:12.420 Nick Evans, who plays the Slyther. 26:13.500 --> 26:15.900 I must say, I was very pleased to get all the attention, 26:15.900 --> 26:17.340 but very surprised. 26:18.860 --> 26:22.540 And Slyther sort of didn't appear again after that 26:22.540 --> 26:24.940 because that nasty William Russell killed it, 26:24.940 --> 26:26.380 if you remember, with a rock. 26:28.100 --> 26:29.020 Shame, shame. 26:32.940 --> 26:37.460 When you rehearse, you have no problems 26:37.460 --> 26:39.660 from the point of view of the action. 26:40.540 --> 26:42.300 And you rehearse for four days, 26:42.300 --> 26:44.900 but when you go into the studio and the set's built, 26:44.900 --> 26:46.340 then there are complications 26:46.340 --> 26:48.540 because where you thought the camera could move, 26:48.540 --> 26:51.100 it can't move, it's too big. 26:51.100 --> 26:52.740 Or they're knocking into each other 26:52.740 --> 26:56.220 or two cameras are virtually filming in the same direction. 26:56.220 --> 26:58.140 So one of them is redundant, really. 26:58.140 --> 26:59.460 And you can't do that with the cameras. 26:59.460 --> 27:01.900 You must try and use them to get the maximum out of them, 27:01.900 --> 27:03.940 which makes it very difficult for the director. 27:03.940 --> 27:04.860 It's not simple. 27:04.860 --> 27:06.900 It is very difficult in the studio. 27:06.900 --> 27:09.420 There's such a quick turnaround, you see. 27:09.420 --> 27:14.020 If you were filming, you filmed on the Sunday, 25 pounds, 27:15.300 --> 27:19.580 and then you'd start your next script on the Monday. 27:19.580 --> 27:22.060 And on the Thursday, you would have a run-through 27:22.060 --> 27:25.900 for your technicians, and Virgil Lambert would come 27:25.900 --> 27:27.220 and sort of see what had been done, 27:27.220 --> 27:30.980 and all the problems, all the camera angles, 27:30.980 --> 27:35.100 all the, whether the scenery was sort of right 27:35.100 --> 27:37.540 for what was needed for the storyline. 27:38.780 --> 27:41.820 And then you would actually record it on the Friday. 27:41.820 --> 27:45.420 Now, when we rehearse, we rehearse with tapes on the floor. 27:45.420 --> 27:49.780 They represent the doors, the walls, the sewer. 27:49.780 --> 27:51.060 That's in the rehearsal room. 27:51.060 --> 27:54.220 And then when you come into the studio, everything is there. 27:55.020 --> 27:57.580 Until, but not everything is there. 27:57.580 --> 28:01.820 Water isn't there until the actual recording. 28:01.820 --> 28:04.380 And by the time they put the water in and I stepped in, 28:04.380 --> 28:07.300 I destroyed a pair of good shoes. 28:07.300 --> 28:11.420 And that's the main Scotsman in me that remembers that. 28:11.420 --> 28:14.660 There was one wonderful day when about 10 Daleks 28:14.660 --> 28:18.980 had to stream out of a machine, 28:18.980 --> 28:22.380 and they all caught the sides of the, 28:22.380 --> 28:26.260 and adjustments had to be made very hurriedly. 28:26.260 --> 28:28.180 I don't think they realised they were quite so broad 28:28.180 --> 28:29.500 or quite so heavy. 28:29.500 --> 28:31.180 They were extremely heavy. 28:31.180 --> 28:33.700 They're extremely heavy to sort of push along. 28:33.700 --> 28:36.980 Later on, they got rid of the pedals and the chain, 28:36.980 --> 28:39.340 and you just moved it around with your feet. 28:39.340 --> 28:41.260 So that was easier, because it was lighter 28:41.260 --> 28:43.300 and you were more mobile. 28:43.300 --> 28:45.380 There's one thing about Doctor Who in those days, 28:45.380 --> 28:47.620 and it changed a lot later on, 28:47.620 --> 28:49.620 different doctors coming in, 28:49.620 --> 28:52.460 was that it was done very much on the cheap. 28:52.460 --> 28:55.180 I think probably, well, it's only for kids, 28:55.180 --> 28:58.380 so it doesn't really matter, you know. 28:58.380 --> 29:00.300 Don't need to spend any money on it. 29:00.300 --> 29:02.820 And we rehearsed for sort of four or five days, 29:02.820 --> 29:04.860 and then had one day in the studio 29:04.860 --> 29:08.660 to do this very complicated sort of technical stuff. 29:08.660 --> 29:12.860 And there was one sequence in which, 29:12.860 --> 29:14.780 I think, the sort of the three heroes, 29:14.780 --> 29:16.020 the three younger people, 29:16.020 --> 29:18.820 but I couldn't remember exactly who, 29:18.820 --> 29:22.700 were supposed to be fastened to a metallic wall 29:22.700 --> 29:25.700 with these very futuristic magnets. 29:25.700 --> 29:30.300 And somebody had made a sort of three-quarters thing 29:30.300 --> 29:33.580 like this, such as Daleks might have produced. 29:33.580 --> 29:35.860 And the idea was that they fit around your neck, 29:35.860 --> 29:38.700 and with magnets in, were stuck to a wall, 29:38.700 --> 29:40.420 so you couldn't move. 29:40.420 --> 29:42.220 And the props, beautifully made. 29:42.220 --> 29:43.860 I mean, the BBC prop department, 29:43.860 --> 29:47.420 as I know from I being served and so on later on, 29:47.420 --> 29:50.740 were absolutely brilliant, and they could make anything. 29:50.740 --> 29:52.660 But they'd made these, and then someone had said, 29:52.660 --> 29:55.700 oh, Lord, we'd better get some magnets to put in them. 29:55.700 --> 29:57.460 I think someone went round to Woolworth's, 29:57.460 --> 29:59.900 and they got these little tie magnets. 29:59.900 --> 30:01.300 So you put these things on the wall, 30:01.300 --> 30:03.220 and they instantly fell off. 30:03.220 --> 30:05.660 So the characters who were supposed to be irretrievably 30:05.660 --> 30:08.900 magnetised to the wall throughout the entire scene 30:08.900 --> 30:10.500 had to hold these things in place, 30:10.500 --> 30:13.020 otherwise they'd have dropped off. 30:13.020 --> 30:16.940 I was in the wardrobe in the studios one day, 30:16.940 --> 30:19.540 and the monitors were going, you know, 30:19.540 --> 30:22.940 the screens with all the storyline going on, 30:22.940 --> 30:25.180 and we could sort of see what was happening. 30:25.180 --> 30:29.300 And I think I was being changed into the sliver outfit. 30:29.300 --> 30:32.940 And on the screen, we could see the Robo-Men. 30:32.940 --> 30:33.780 They were fighting. 30:33.780 --> 30:35.740 They'd turned against the Daleks by this time, 30:35.740 --> 30:37.420 and they were fighting like fury 30:37.420 --> 30:39.620 and getting really cross with them. 30:39.620 --> 30:43.020 And there's a great close-up of several Robo-Men 30:43.020 --> 30:45.100 throwing a Dalek in the air, 30:45.100 --> 30:47.460 and catching it, and up, and catching it, 30:47.460 --> 30:49.620 and up, and catching it again. 30:49.620 --> 30:52.660 And one sort of rather camp dresser gentleman 30:52.660 --> 30:56.700 said to another, oh, dear, what's going on there? 30:56.700 --> 30:59.300 And the other one said, I don't know. 30:59.300 --> 31:01.100 Perhaps it's its birthday. 31:01.100 --> 31:06.100 The scene with the fish, with Caroline Ford, 31:06.100 --> 31:10.580 I remember that, and it's a strange thing. 31:10.580 --> 31:11.700 I don't remember it happily, 31:11.700 --> 31:14.300 because I was never really happy about doing it. 31:14.300 --> 31:17.580 Mainly because I thought it was a bit twee, 31:17.580 --> 31:20.820 a bit the thing you would expect in that situation. 31:20.820 --> 31:25.060 And I tried never to give anybody what they want 31:25.060 --> 31:27.620 in that situation, the audience, I mean. 31:27.620 --> 31:28.900 But the director wanted it that way, 31:28.900 --> 31:29.980 so I had to do it that way. 31:29.980 --> 31:34.380 But what I felt about it was the scene from the outset 31:34.380 --> 31:37.220 of how I came into the scene with the fish, 31:37.220 --> 31:41.660 the whole scene was leaning towards the end, 31:41.660 --> 31:46.660 which would be, I would end up in a kiss, 31:46.780 --> 31:49.460 or a kiss and a cuddle, or something like that. 31:49.460 --> 31:54.460 I was terribly pleased to have a contract for six weeks, 31:55.620 --> 31:57.980 but I was surprised when I found out 31:57.980 --> 32:00.020 I was being a Dalek operator. 32:00.020 --> 32:01.820 Never mind, never mind, I just sort of got on with it. 32:01.820 --> 32:04.900 But professionally, it wasn't going to do me 32:04.900 --> 32:06.340 a great deal of good. 32:06.340 --> 32:08.140 And this isn't being snobby. 32:08.140 --> 32:12.620 You really try and do a better job each time. 32:12.620 --> 32:14.380 Go up a notch, if you can. 32:14.380 --> 32:17.060 Being a Dalek operator, one really was, 32:17.060 --> 32:20.060 well, on a par with the extras. 32:20.060 --> 32:22.380 Fair enough, good people that they are. 32:22.380 --> 32:25.700 But I thought, what I'll do about this 32:25.700 --> 32:28.620 is have my name taken off the credits, 32:28.620 --> 32:30.500 and then no one will know that it's me, 32:30.500 --> 32:32.980 because they couldn't tell who was in these machines. 32:32.980 --> 32:36.540 And I think they were off three of the credits, 32:36.540 --> 32:38.900 and they were on three of the credits. 32:38.900 --> 32:40.940 That's why people have got a bit confused 32:40.940 --> 32:43.940 about whether I was in them or not. 32:43.940 --> 32:47.260 I think I did a great deal more than people know about. 32:47.260 --> 32:50.060 I mean, I just sort of did it, was pleased to do it, 32:50.060 --> 32:54.580 took the money, I think I got 40 guineas per programme. 32:54.580 --> 32:57.260 A guinea, folks, was a pound with a shilling added on. 32:57.260 --> 32:59.460 The BBC paid in guineas in those days. 32:59.460 --> 33:00.780 I don't know why. 33:01.740 --> 33:03.460 And really, that was the end of it. 33:03.460 --> 33:04.940 I thought no more about it. 33:04.940 --> 33:07.340 And for some 20 or 30 years, 33:07.340 --> 33:08.820 the fact that I'd been in Doctor Who 33:08.820 --> 33:10.900 was just a sort of dim memory. 33:10.900 --> 33:13.740 And then recently, over the last 10 years or so, 33:13.740 --> 33:15.620 I get people asking for my autograph 33:15.620 --> 33:17.820 because I was in Doctor Who. 33:17.820 --> 33:19.860 And they know far more about it than I do. 33:19.860 --> 33:21.660 After doing that programme, 33:21.660 --> 33:24.380 the strange thing was everybody in the business 33:24.380 --> 33:26.340 knew I'd been in it. 33:26.340 --> 33:30.460 But it didn't mean that people just gave me a job 33:30.460 --> 33:32.340 because it was successful. 33:32.340 --> 33:34.540 But the strange thing was everybody knew about me 33:34.540 --> 33:35.380 having been in it. 33:35.380 --> 33:37.860 I'm talking about casting directors, other directors. 33:37.860 --> 33:39.620 That doesn't mean to say they didn't know 33:39.620 --> 33:41.940 that I'd done the plays at the Royal Court Theatre 33:41.940 --> 33:46.540 or other big televisions which were successful. 33:46.540 --> 33:48.820 But everybody knew about it. 33:48.820 --> 33:53.100 When I do pantomime, I have Dalek fans 33:53.100 --> 33:55.420 turning up with pictures of Daleks, pictures of me, 33:55.420 --> 33:57.420 wanting their photographs taken with me. 33:57.420 --> 33:59.220 And I sort of think, how extraordinary. 33:59.220 --> 34:01.900 Perfectly straightforward, nice people in their 30s, 34:01.900 --> 34:04.140 but really keen on Daleks. 34:04.140 --> 34:07.140 More people stopped me in the street after that 34:07.140 --> 34:08.700 than two years earlier I did a thing called 34:08.700 --> 34:11.220 Deadline Midnight, which ran six months. 34:11.220 --> 34:14.100 And there was only six episodes of this programme, 34:14.100 --> 34:16.180 and yet more people stopped me in the street 34:16.180 --> 34:17.020 to talk about it. 34:17.020 --> 34:18.980 If I'm at a party or something and I'm not getting 34:18.980 --> 34:21.620 any attention, and perhaps I feel I would like 34:21.620 --> 34:24.300 a bit of attention, I just drop into the conversation 34:24.300 --> 34:26.340 that I used to be a Dalek. 34:26.340 --> 34:28.420 And suddenly you've got people's interest. 34:28.420 --> 34:33.420 I think that Daleks had this combination of being quite, 34:36.420 --> 34:38.540 perhaps frightening at the time. 34:38.540 --> 34:40.580 You know, I think young children used to sort of hide 34:40.580 --> 34:42.340 behind the sofa every now and again. 34:42.340 --> 34:44.100 And I think that's what's happened. 34:44.100 --> 34:47.020 Young children used to sort of hide behind the sofa 34:47.020 --> 34:47.860 every now and again. 34:47.860 --> 34:51.900 But at the same time, they had a sort of almost comedy 34:51.900 --> 34:53.060 edge to them. 34:53.060 --> 34:55.220 And I think, you know, there were a lot of children 34:55.220 --> 34:59.780 who used to get the kitchen plunger, the sink plunger out, 34:59.780 --> 35:02.420 and pretend to be a Dalek and go around going, 35:02.420 --> 35:05.180 exterminate, and all that to each other. 35:05.180 --> 35:07.860 So I think there was that in those days. 35:07.860 --> 35:10.780 People have talked to me, grown up and children 35:10.780 --> 35:12.020 at that time. 35:12.020 --> 35:15.100 And there's no question they were absolutely fascinated 35:15.100 --> 35:16.180 by them. 35:16.180 --> 35:18.940 But the appeal, the unknown, I suppose. 35:18.940 --> 35:21.740 They just didn't know what was gonna happen next. 35:21.740 --> 35:25.700 And it wasn't a human being you were dealing with. 35:25.700 --> 35:29.180 It was something from another planet that just didn't know 35:29.180 --> 35:31.860 how it was gonna react, how it was gonna behave. 35:31.860 --> 35:33.820 Ooh, exciting. 35:33.820 --> 35:37.740 I think that the voice spoken by wonderful actor 35:37.740 --> 35:39.820 called Peter Hawkins at the time, 35:39.820 --> 35:42.380 with that electronic distortion, 35:42.380 --> 35:44.460 which is, I think, probably about the first time 35:44.460 --> 35:46.260 that it's ever been done. 35:46.260 --> 35:49.540 I think that that tone of voice was the thing 35:49.540 --> 35:54.540 which was very large, was a very large part 35:55.780 --> 35:57.860 of the popularity of the Daleks, 35:57.860 --> 36:00.980 and the fact that the Daleks were frightening. 36:00.980 --> 36:04.380 A machine that spoke, and the fact that they sort of 36:04.380 --> 36:07.580 shot rays and blanked people out, 36:07.580 --> 36:11.140 and had a sort of sink plunger attached to them, 36:11.140 --> 36:12.620 which always made me laugh. 36:12.620 --> 36:17.020 But I think the voice was a very large part of it. 36:17.020 --> 36:21.380 And I think it's the battle between good and evil, 36:21.380 --> 36:22.220 isn't it? 36:22.220 --> 36:25.180 It's the battle between the outsider 36:25.180 --> 36:28.420 and the people in power, 36:30.100 --> 36:32.460 or against the invader. 36:32.460 --> 36:37.460 And that's a story that goes on for always, doesn't it? 36:38.700 --> 36:42.700 Personally, I found them boring. 36:45.020 --> 36:49.300 But if you look at them in terms of the programme, 36:50.820 --> 36:51.820 they were very interesting, 36:51.820 --> 36:53.340 because I don't think anything 36:53.340 --> 36:55.140 had ever been done like that before. 36:55.140 --> 36:59.340 I mean, people like Dick, 36:59.340 --> 37:02.140 I can't remember the initials of the author's name, 37:02.140 --> 37:03.420 the great American writer. 37:03.420 --> 37:07.300 He was writing science fiction stuff of that type. 37:07.300 --> 37:09.740 And people were reading it and were in love with it. 37:09.740 --> 37:11.540 And this was the manifestation of it. 37:11.540 --> 37:14.780 I mean, I got a Dalek exterminate. 37:14.780 --> 37:16.500 I mean, and the kids loved them. 37:17.900 --> 37:20.140 Well, you talk about the Daleks. 37:21.900 --> 37:24.180 I mean, they were rubbish, weren't they, actually? 37:24.180 --> 37:25.700 When you look at them. 37:25.700 --> 37:29.100 They had these funny steel domes that swivelled. 37:29.100 --> 37:31.820 They had flat bottoms. 37:31.820 --> 37:33.940 And sometimes you saw the bottom, 37:33.940 --> 37:36.580 if one got turned over in action or something. 37:36.580 --> 37:40.740 And they had these sink plungers sticking out the front. 37:40.740 --> 37:43.460 And another thing, I think, which sent the rays out. 37:44.660 --> 37:47.180 But they couldn't go anywhere. 37:47.180 --> 37:49.340 I remember being very amused by the fact 37:49.340 --> 37:53.180 that the Daleks could only move on level ground. 37:53.180 --> 37:55.620 And so here are these terrifying machines. 37:55.620 --> 37:57.180 And all you had to do was to go upstairs, 37:57.180 --> 37:59.100 and they couldn't get anywhere near you. 37:59.100 --> 38:00.220 So any time you got, 38:00.220 --> 38:02.940 I mean, there's one shot somewhere where, 38:02.940 --> 38:04.340 I think it was the Albert Memorial. 38:04.340 --> 38:06.620 And they come trundling on, 38:06.620 --> 38:08.820 stop at the top of the flight of steps, 38:08.820 --> 38:10.580 and then you have to cut away 38:10.580 --> 38:12.060 because they can't go down the steps. 38:12.060 --> 38:13.780 There's no way they can go down a flight of steps. 38:13.780 --> 38:17.300 There's no way they can climb a hill with any rocks on it. 38:18.740 --> 38:23.740 And in fact, towards the end of Dalek's invasion of Earth, 38:23.740 --> 38:26.100 when everyone rebels, 38:26.100 --> 38:27.820 they just pick them up and throw them around 38:27.820 --> 38:30.740 like old dolls or something, 38:30.740 --> 38:32.220 and pull them to pieces. 38:32.220 --> 38:34.700 So they were rubbish, but they were wonderful rubbish. 38:34.700 --> 38:39.460 Every now and then, the Daleks would make a Nazi salute 38:39.460 --> 38:42.740 because they wanted to sort of equate Daleks 38:42.740 --> 38:46.020 with Nazis taking over the world. 38:46.020 --> 38:48.980 So I think we did that on the Albert Memorial, 38:48.980 --> 38:52.620 one for it, stating their claim. 38:52.620 --> 38:54.940 Good stuff, very effective, quite dramatic. 38:54.940 --> 38:59.140 The fact that the Daleks used Nazi phraseology, 38:59.140 --> 39:03.140 like the final solution and exterminate and words like that, 39:03.140 --> 39:08.780 must perhaps have added an extra dimension to the story, 39:08.780 --> 39:10.300 a sort of shadow across it, 39:10.300 --> 39:12.220 that it would remind people 39:12.220 --> 39:16.140 of things that had happened not that long before, 39:16.140 --> 39:18.220 or that they had been frightened would happen 39:18.220 --> 39:19.620 not that long before. 39:19.620 --> 39:23.460 MUSIC PLAYS 39:23.460 --> 39:25.500 It's always marvellous in this business, 39:25.500 --> 39:28.220 when you do a job, 39:28.220 --> 39:30.820 you see the script or your cast 39:30.820 --> 39:33.580 and you do it to the very best of your ability. 39:33.580 --> 39:38.620 And often you don't know that down the years, 39:38.620 --> 39:41.660 they're going to become a cult or a classic. 39:41.660 --> 39:44.940 And that's what a classic is, 39:44.940 --> 39:48.020 that after a certain number of years, 39:48.020 --> 39:52.220 it achieves a popularity and a notoriety, 39:52.220 --> 39:54.060 and people just love it. 39:54.060 --> 39:55.860 Doctor Who was successful, 39:55.860 --> 39:59.180 but the Daleks, there'd been one episode of Daleks before, 39:59.180 --> 40:01.380 and that made them very, very successful. 40:01.380 --> 40:04.100 I mean, I knew that, everybody knew that. 40:04.100 --> 40:06.620 But when I say everybody knew that, 40:06.620 --> 40:08.820 I mean, everybody involved in the production knew that. 40:08.820 --> 40:11.300 But when it actually was shown, 40:11.300 --> 40:13.500 everybody was stunned by the viewing figures. 40:13.500 --> 40:14.460 They were fantastic. 40:14.460 --> 40:19.180 I mean, they were, I mean, something 11, 12 million viewers. 40:19.180 --> 40:21.900 I mean, for a Saturday night, for a half hour, 40:21.900 --> 40:24.980 which most of us thought was a children's programme. 40:24.980 --> 40:27.500 So it was a huge success, but we were all stunned. 40:27.500 --> 40:28.860 At least I was stunned. 40:28.860 --> 40:32.020 You could actually have a whole family of kids 40:32.020 --> 40:34.780 and adults watching Doctor Who, 40:34.780 --> 40:36.260 and they go, who? 40:36.260 --> 40:38.180 What's going to happen to our hero? 40:38.180 --> 40:40.260 But it wasn't really frightening. 40:40.260 --> 40:44.820 It did, there was none of this awful kind of gut fear 40:44.820 --> 40:47.020 that you get in some films. 40:47.020 --> 40:48.980 So it was in the best sense of the word, 40:48.980 --> 40:50.740 family entertainment. 40:50.740 --> 40:52.540 There's the quality of magic, 40:53.740 --> 40:56.100 and there's, it's a sort of, 40:57.300 --> 41:00.180 anything can happen, anything can happen. 41:00.180 --> 41:05.180 And you can go inside the TARDIS 41:05.460 --> 41:07.740 and be whisked away to another world. 41:07.740 --> 41:11.140 So it's a form of escape as well, 41:11.140 --> 41:14.860 in the way that films like the Harry Potter films 41:14.860 --> 41:16.420 are a form of escape. 41:16.420 --> 41:19.340 And I think that's always very popular, 41:19.340 --> 41:21.540 especially if it's well done. 41:21.540 --> 41:24.220 They weren't tied down to one situation. 41:24.220 --> 41:26.940 They could go, you know, extra galactical, 41:26.940 --> 41:30.780 or in the earth, into history, into the future. 41:30.780 --> 41:34.060 And I think that was the thing, and it's the format. 41:34.060 --> 41:36.460 The basic format never changed. 41:36.460 --> 41:38.620 At the end, there was a crisis, 41:38.620 --> 41:40.420 and people were going to get wiped out, 41:40.420 --> 41:42.020 or the earth was going to blow up, 41:42.020 --> 41:44.220 and Doctor Who would sort it all out. 41:44.220 --> 41:46.140 But it was done in so many different ways. 41:46.140 --> 41:49.620 And that's what all adventure is, really, 41:49.620 --> 41:52.060 that the 11th hour, all will be well. 41:52.060 --> 41:55.500 ♪♪ 41:55.500 --> 41:58.700 I really loved it, and I remember it 41:58.700 --> 42:02.060 much more than I remember a lot of other television things 42:02.060 --> 42:03.820 that I did round about that time. 42:05.420 --> 42:07.020 It was just great fun. 42:07.020 --> 42:08.940 You know, the machines are fun, 42:08.940 --> 42:12.220 and I like the people I was working with. 42:12.220 --> 42:15.980 I knew Bernard Kaye and Peter Fraser, 42:15.980 --> 42:20.460 and Jackie became quickly a friend. 42:20.460 --> 42:22.780 So I have very happy memories of it. 42:22.780 --> 42:24.300 With regard to the program itself, 42:24.300 --> 42:29.540 when I saw it after 39 years, it was made in 1964, 42:29.540 --> 42:31.660 I was surprised by how good it was. 42:31.660 --> 42:35.740 I mean, that's looking back all these years. 42:35.740 --> 42:38.740 Things have moved forward so quickly now. 42:38.740 --> 42:41.180 Everything is cut, cut, cut, cut, cut. 42:41.180 --> 42:42.940 There was something about the program. 42:42.940 --> 42:44.420 The framing is excellent. 42:44.420 --> 42:46.260 Some of the performances are reasonable. 42:46.260 --> 42:47.500 Some are not so good. 42:47.500 --> 42:49.700 But it had something. 42:49.700 --> 42:51.020 It had a quality. 42:51.020 --> 42:52.100 Let's face it, it must have had something, 42:52.100 --> 42:54.900 otherwise it wouldn't have been a damn success. 42:54.900 --> 42:55.900 It would never go out. 42:55.900 --> 42:58.780 I mean, if it was made today, it would never go out. 42:58.780 --> 43:03.860 Well, nobody would make it today, not like that, 43:03.860 --> 43:09.300 simply because people expect more now in technical terms. 43:09.300 --> 43:12.140 So the only way, actually... 43:12.140 --> 43:14.100 Well, I hear there's a lot of interest in it now, 43:14.100 --> 43:16.340 but it's nostalgic interest. 43:16.340 --> 43:18.500 I think it's wonderful. 43:18.500 --> 43:21.260 I think it's really amazing and wonderful. 43:21.260 --> 43:23.940 And I do get letters even now, 43:23.940 --> 43:27.020 I think probably a lot of the people who were in Doctor Who do, 43:27.020 --> 43:30.660 from people asking for photos and signatures 43:30.660 --> 43:33.380 and little stories about it. 43:33.380 --> 43:35.900 There's a great interest in it still. 43:35.900 --> 43:37.340 It's really amazing. 43:37.340 --> 43:42.260 My own view about the popularity of Doctor Who as a series, 43:42.260 --> 43:45.260 or as a series of series, 43:45.260 --> 43:53.780 is the sort of Merlin character of the Doctor himself, 43:53.780 --> 43:58.380 that he is the old, wise grandfather figure. 43:58.380 --> 44:01.660 He is, as I say, he is Merlin. 44:01.660 --> 44:04.180 He's the sorcerer. 44:04.180 --> 44:08.020 And he's a thousand years old or more. 44:08.020 --> 44:11.540 But watching the story now, 44:11.540 --> 44:13.340 it is such a long time ago. 44:13.340 --> 44:14.900 I've practically forgotten it all. 44:14.900 --> 44:16.740 So it's completely new. 44:16.740 --> 44:19.700 So it's jolly interesting, yeah. 44:19.700 --> 44:43.260 I'm part of television history, aren't I? 44:43.260 --> 44:46.820 If Doctor Who came back and I had the slightest chance, 44:46.820 --> 44:49.220 I would absolutely jump at it. 44:49.220 --> 44:51.580 I would certainly grow a full white beard again. 44:51.580 --> 44:53.620 I'd probably got what hair I've left. 44:53.620 --> 44:56.100 I'd let that grow a bit longer. 44:56.100 --> 44:59.580 And I'd ask the make-up people to age me up. 44:59.580 --> 45:02.940 I mean, I'm 68 now, but he's older than that, you know. 45:02.940 --> 45:05.780 He's a lot older than that and ought to look it. 45:05.780 --> 45:08.660 And if you think Bill Hartnell, Patrick Troughton, 45:08.660 --> 45:12.380 John Pertwee, you know, they were all older actors. 45:12.380 --> 45:14.620 And I'm sure that's what ought to be done. 45:14.620 --> 45:19.620 So putting a plug, Nicola Smith is Doctor Who.