every generation of teachers before us has done. it is the charge that we take seriously. and we will deliver just as legions of teachers before us have. >> we would like to congratulate missy testerman and all of the state teachers of the year, you truly are the backbone of our nation. and we thank you for your hard work and dedication to our children and on that very beautiful note, i wish you a very good night. my colleague ari is up next. and make sure to tune in tomorrow. because it is friday. our night cap. if you miss it, you can catch it again on saturday at 11:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc, but for now, i'm signing off from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thanks for staying up late with me. i'll see you at the end of tomorrow. welcome to the beat. i'm ari and this is day ten of

donald trump's criminal trial. the witnesses, the receipts, today, prosecutors began by actually arguing the defendant should be held in contempt again for new fresh gag order violations even after he lost the last gag order clash on tuesday. prosecution looking at statements that trump put out about witnesses. as well as attacking the jury itself. prosecutors say trump's violations are corrosive to the fair trial that he deserves and that the system requires. they also accuse them of creating an air of menace that could affect these jurors. also denouncing persistent and escalating rhetoric. now the judge found that trump lost his previous defense about this. ruling that he did violate the gag order, fining him about $9,000. and that was just this week. trump has clearly broken the rules. i say that again, not as a criticism, but based on what we have observed in the trial. what the judge has ruled.

here he was just last night. >> i don't think there has ever been a more conflicted judge. crooked and conflicted. unconstitutionally gagged, he gagged me so i'm not even supposed to be talking to you. because he gagged me. >> trump there trying to play up the gagging while of course the very speaking he is doing about the trial would suggest he doesn't seem all that gagged. that's the reality component. and there is the legal component. the judge today told trump's lawyer nobody forced your client to speak to which the trump defense lawyer said i agree with that. but he is running for president. he has to be able to go speak. this is the back and forth and what we have uncovered before. the unusual challenges of a defendant slash candidate. now trump was apparently displeased with his own lawyer shaking his head at the exchange. the judge has not yet ruled on this particular instance but he did say as recently as tuesday,

that there could be jail as a punishment if there are enough violations. prosecution then went back to the case at hand. the questioning of a key witness, the lawyer for some of the women involved in this, karen mcdougal and stormy daniels. that is keith davidson. he helped broker the secret original payments to keep things secret. now they have had their history with trump and that is part of the trial. that history itself is not what creates the crime. it is whether there was business fraud and a campaign cover-up. confirming cohen was working directly for trump, that this wasn't some made upside deal which is one of the ways the trump team. what you had on the stand again today and what this jury was listening to was confirmation of the story line which is damning for trump and that is before cohen takes the stand. the whole plot, burying these stories because there was an

election coming in november 16th. now remember, the wall street journal did get the catch and kill agreement with mcdougal, the former playboy play mate you see on the screen. this was a big story. this was in rupert murdoc's wall street journal. here you have the legal version of that reporting with davidson, the lawyer who did the deal saying that cohen was quote very upset and all of that went down in close proximity to the election of 2016. why does that matter, the burden on the prosecution is getting that other crime i told you about it and we have had just last night, lawyers on who talked about whether that will be an uphill battle but it is that campaign crime. the evidence is bad for trump even if it sounds obvious. if you follow the news, you may know about all this. you may know he tried to bury it and it was related to the campaign, but memories are not good enough at a trial. the only thing people are

supposed to consider is the evidence. so your personal memory of living through the 16 campaign if you were a juror would not be what you use. you can only use the evidence presented. and i will tell you, this has been an effective couple of days for the prosecution because they don't look biased. they don't look like they are reaching. they are literally using trump and his lawyer and the people around them and their statements at the time to continue to establish and reestablish what appear to be a basic fact. trump did win that election. but this is a country with the rule of law. under our laws we have this thing called the electoral college. though he got less total votes, he won the electoral college. davidson testifies that he thought the catch and kill scheme was key to what we know was a narrow result. it was that night that davidson texted what have we done to the

enquirer chief and they respond oh my god. davidson said there was an understanding our activities may have assisted the campaign of trump. davidson described today a despondent michael cohen after the election because cohen did more than most people around trump. and did some of the dirty work other people didn't do. and yet he was offered nothing. nada, not a social secretary job, pr job, assistant to the secretary job, he got zero. this is interesting. when you are doing a trial, you have to do all the evidence. this is something we may see trump's defense lawyers seize on. the idea cohen was so mad about a whole range of things, maybe that clouded how he described what happened with trump. so here is that testimony. cohen told davidson according

to this testimony today, i can't believe i'm not going to washington. i have saved that guy's blank so many times. then there was a cross- examination. this was tense. we have the words, we report on that. what was described as a tense and escalating moment was trump's defense attorneys trying to say, well, maybe this guy, this supposed witness who was confirming things and the texts suggest accuracy. they suggested he is a quote serial extorter who shook down celebrities. that is all keith davidson is about. how could you trust someone like that? now for the first time the jury heard michael cohen's voice. prosecutors playing these recordings that at the time were secret. turned out to be quite interesting and now turned out to be criminal evidence. donald trump could lose this case, be convicted and

sentenced to jail. he could have a mistrial and be akuwaited. we don't know what is going to happen but we could say the type of conversations he had were so bad they become criminal evidence. that's quite something for a former president. here is one from 2018 who was president at the time. i can't even tell you how many times he said you know i hate the fact that we did it and my comment to him was what every person who spoke to said it was the right thing to do. that he being trump, and the thing being these payments. now this corroborates what the da needs to prove. that trump was in on this. you might be so accustomed to hearing donald trump spin and lie that you might say who even cares if they were saying whether they should or shouldn't do it. that's not the point. the point is that at the time then, not later when cohen ran into his further legal problems but then, while donald trump

was president trump, michael cohen was saying that it is trump in on it. not that cohen concocted that story to get at his own boss who he is angry with but at the time it was true then and discussed then with the guy on the other part of that transaction. that is bad for defendant trump. now we have heard this recording but it was played in court for the very first time today. cohen and trump discussing that initial payment that was arranged for the former playboy play mate karen mcdougal in 2016. >> i need to open up a company for the transfer of all of that info regarding our friend david. i spoke to allen about it. >> pay with cash. >> no, no, no, no. >> there are tapes. the tapes are bad.

in this case, michael cohen made the tape because he thought it would help him protect himself. he had to much to scramble to get the deal. and his client didn't want to pay. it is not about being cheap or lazy. the initial instinct by then president trump or candidate trump then later president in the cover-up was pay with cash, cover it up. we don't want anyone to know about this. and that's a problem for the trump defense because they keep saying it is all legal. ndas are legal and it is true. there are many different ways you can structure an nda between two private parties and your former employer. all sorts of ways it is legal. why beyond signing it were they so intent on covering it up? does that go against the reasonable doubt that trump's defense team is trying to conjure, that cohen went rogue. maybe this didn't happen the

way they said. that's some of what went down in the trial the day. and we will have experts when we are back in 90 seconds. k in.

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with donald trump? >> correct. >> karen mcdougal discussing her own dealings and own eyewitness view of that deal she struck with ami, the national enquirer. that case went onto be investigated in the southern district of new york, the feds, and is now a trial. the first ever criminal trial of a former president. we are joined by david kelly. quite relevant these days. also full disclosure, my former boss in practicing law, and lance lecher. welcome to both of you. david, it is interesting that was a big interview that anderson cooper landed at the time. we haven't heard much from karen mcdougal in public. some of what she understood to be the case then is now being confirmed in court. her understanding over time was oh, this was all a cut-out. this was the the campaign arm

of trump doing business as a tabloid. it is only supposed to go off the evidence as they get it. just in the past two weeks. >> i think putting pecker on the stand and really laying out the scheme and the context for the scheme was important. i thought it was interesting because it fed into the whole thing. because i think that one defense lawyer, by doing that, i think what they really did was show that he had the creds. this is a very sordid thing. while the defense lawyers want to paint this as this happens every day. this is the way it is done. none of the people they got on

cross-examination were running for president. none of the people they talked about in cross-examination had obligations under federal election law. to make truthful entries. what karen mcdougal talked about was this was the acknowledgment of the scheme. creating this false story, trashing the truth and hiding everything and it feeds into the whole story that david pecker laid out. >> and lance, davidson is being pulled in. and he is dealing with the enquirer but he is also dealing with cohen so over time, he has a very firsthand understanding that yes, it might be a cut-out or intermediary for the rest of the world. right? but he actually knows the scoop before everyone. and before as i mentioned the

wall street journal busted the story open. we spoke with davidson about this. he did cooperate with sdny. we asked him about that at the time. take a listen. >> i sat down with the sdny prosecutors about 20 hours. in total. >> 20 hours? >> that's right. so i can put together through their questioning where they are goingened what evidence they believe is important. yes, they are of the opinion that it was politically motivated. >> lance, he was correct about that. prosecutor questions like supreme court questions might not tell you where they are doing. but if that i do ten hours on it, you think they are looking at campaign violations. not political nerds wasting your time with your curiosity.

they did get cohen convicted on a federal campaign crime. could the jury still have doubts about why we are dealing with this so many years later in a local court if it is a federal issue? >> the jury might have concerns like that. but i think the prosecutors are going to be well equipped to remind the your that is not something they should be worried about here. and certainly the judge will handle that when he charges the jury. the jury will focus in on the more, just the basics of this. and this case i know, might seem a little complicated. or even at times boring but this is a very simple sort of thing. we are dealing with hush money, this was hush money to influence the election. you combine those two things, and that really undercuts what the defense has been saying that this is business as usual. i think with witnesses like davidson, you are dealing with

sort of some unsavory characters. and it really exposes some of the dealings that go on with celebrity stories and information that comes out. but i think the prosecutor will have an easy job reminding everyone these are the witnesses that donald trump picked and the take away could help the prosecutor's case. this is not normal. there are questionable things going on here. some of the witnesses testifying, they are voicing concerns they had about how their conduct could be perceived by others if it was reviewed. and that goes to something that the prosecutor might talk about which is called consciousness of guilt. it is a powerful testimony that this isn't a negligent breaking of the law. what is going on here might

have been very knowledgeable and intentional. >> yeah. well, and that goes to the motive as you say. guilty about the campaign motive and that david, this was a campaign expenditure. because they had years before running for president, they didn't do anything about this. it wasn't something they had as an operating expension or part of his personal life. this was the campaign. and that is the other byte i want to play from when i did speak to keith davidson. he is not doing interviews right now. when we did get a chance to ask him, we asked about this and he made a shrewd point from his own experience. he is under oath now. they had this for years. and he knows that because he raised it with them: take a listen. >> the affairs happened in 2006. we contacted each other about

the matter in 2011. in a minimum. they knew about me and stormy in 2011. they knew about it in 2012 and 13, 14, and 15. they knew about it when donald trump declared that he was a candidate. >> david, what is that kind of history do against the trump defense that hey, he can buy people silence. it is technically usually legal. and if he wants to do one in 2010 or 2016, he can do that. >> you characterize the earlier tape as a bad tape. if you are a prosecutor it's a great tape. but what it does here, it does an awful lot of things. it goes into the plot of this is a whole scheme to alter the election. >> : number one. but number two, it also goes to help stormy daniels' credibility. because they want to paint her

as somebody who is a gold digger because she knows she has leverage before the election. but she raised this much earlier. it is very helpful for her. it is helpful in terms of filling in the puzzle about the timing of the whole thing. it is that testimony, it is just really devastating for the defense. >> really interesting. david kelly and lance fletcher, coming up, there is more heat on the trump lawyers. as they defend this client with this tough set of receipts. but next, what the successful prosecutions of people who have run countries and the world can tell us. we are joining a long list of

democracies. that is a special report next. .

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doc? donald trump was back in the new york courtroom for the 10th day of his trial. this is something that has rivetted america and we have heard different discussions about what it means. others say why this trial and not the others he has which itself is quite striking considering no other former president has ever been indicted and he faces four sets of indictments. around the world, this is a more familiar situation than other americans might realize. the trial itself echoes something we have seen in other healthy democracies. serving in a government office doesn't mean you have a license to kill for the rest of your life. we have seen it capture the attention of millions around the world.

>> prosecutor ins new york have started to lay out their case against former president donald trump. [ speaking in a global language ] >> they will use every single possibility to talk about himself. >> the world is watching this unprecedented moment in our country. and as i mentioned, people tend to go through things with their own experiences and many other societies have these experiences. we have seen former heads of state, prosecuted in france. south korea. israel. afteryen tina. and brazil. the one time president bolsonaro was facing arrest

over a coup. donald trump's efforts to subvert and overthrow the election and this is the fact no matter what happens in the law, no matter what happens in court, the first american leader to ever be a part of resisting the peaceful transfer of power. people died january 6th and he praised the people who stormed the very capitol as these very special people. now he muses about pardoning them. now he awaits one trial in new york, the outcome of that. and awaits the supreme court ruling on whether he will ever be held to account before november in the coup. and other countries have found it is worth putting people on trial for. regardless of the outcome. for that perspective we want to look at what we learned from the world as the world watches america. we have catty kay here. the rest is politics with anthony scaramucci.

welcome back. >> hi, ari. >> hi. i don't know if you are going to be on the outside looking in because you came here. or on the inside looking out because you have been here long enough to now look out toward europe. it is something so many of us forget. americans for all the reasons we know including the big oceans and relative remoteness. forget that a lot of other folks around the world are watching this as they watch other u.s. actions. and this isn't some strange new precedent to them. how should that figure into our understanding of what's unfolding? >> ithat table you put up of world leaders who have been indicted on charges, in mature democracies and i'm thinking kind of mostly in western and industrialized democracies but some of the democracies in asia as well. it tends to be on charges of

corruption. benjamin netanyahu. sarcozi. it is extremely rare. i'm trying to think of a case where a leader is put on charge for the kinds of charges that donald trump is now facing. an attempt to overthrow a free and fair election and subverting the rule of law. so, that i think is partly why the world is fascinated by this. because it is a first in american history. and because everybody. i cannot tell you how many people have glued around the world on january 6th. there was not a country in the world not watching this. when donald trump was first arrested, the world's media was there. they were all watching this as well. to some extent, the fascination with what is happening here is just around the fact it is a first. but also, emblematic i think of how many countries are struggling to figure out what to do with the united states. literally. what to do with the united

states if donald trump is reelected but even if america walks up to the brink of electing donald trump. a lot of america's allies will say you know what? the chaos and confusion is already there. we don't know what to make of this. it is partly the trial itself. but they are fascinated by donald trump. and really by what is happening in this country. it is doing something others haven't done so much. >> and the question of what we mean when we say rule of law or no one is above the law. if you go big picture, there is a community of democracies that tries for these ideals. that's the western model. the magna carta and all of that. and a bunch of authoritarian countries that don't do this.

no one is under the illusion that putin will be put on trial unless there is violence. there is no understanding within the country that law means anything other than what he says it means. but in other democracies, israel is embroiled in many controversies. b. bibi netanyahu was on trial because of strong evidence of corruption. he managed to come back from it. but people who look at the civic question that france, israel, u.k., italy, these are places where doing the trial part is not the controversy. the united states, you have a growing trump aligned group and maybe with some support on the supreme court itself. having an evidence based trial is the problem. and i wonder what you think the lessons of european history are there. because if some people are above accountability, why wouldn't they abuse power?

or engage in extrajudicial killings or the problems we have seen in societies that don't have guardrails. >> i mean look. luna desilva went to prison. they are a middling democracy in terms of maturity. nicholas sarcozi wearing an ankle bracelet. found guilty year after year after year. seemed like a period of italy's political history. netanyahu took it one step further. what happened, a huge number of people took to the streets. and we saw israelis saying no. this is not what we mean by democracy. we insist on having the rule of law. so i guess, i don't think that

other countries have hesitated. maybe it is just the polarization in this country means that inevitably, you are going to have people saying that the trial itself is not fair. whatever the outcome, they are not prepared to have the trial at all. it is worth a quick look around the world to see how this the reported in other countries because america's adversaries are looking at what you spoke about. you watch the chinese media and the bbc monitors the chinese media every day. they are talking about the polarization and the chaos and the dysfunction of america in the context of this trial. that is a flooring democracy. so, to some extent, the debate taking place in this country right now, around whether the trial should take place is playing squarely into the hands of america's adversaries. >> yeah. i think that is an incisive

point and reminds everyone why giving into the chaos and the rhetoric is a problem because it reinforces what they want. i have been careful to remind everyone. it's a high burden of proof. one juror has reasonable doubt. by no means are we barreling toward something where we can say there will likely be a conviction of this individual. but, the fact that the system is working rather than cowering against threats of violence by someone who wouldn't leave office peacefully, that is a positive thing for a democracy. separate from the result where we keep an open mind. thinking about that in a global context is important. i hope you and the mooch are having fun. we have had him around here sometimes too. >> it's great. it's great. talking of insider or outsider. i thought it was a good combination. it is a time when the world is fascinated and they think they understand america but they really don't. so i wanted somebody who kind of been in that world who could explain it. but i think there is also a lot

for american audiences here, too. >> good. well, we have it up there, people can search wherever you get your podcast for that. we'll see you again. our thanks. coming up, we turn to an update on the story i told you. we will stay on that ivf ban in arizona after incredible backlash making a new move. we have that story tonight. but first, donald trump's defense team. the reasonable doubt i mentioned, we have a very special guest, next. a very special guest, next. you'll love this! centrum silver is clinically proven to support memory in older adults. so you can keep saying, you mastered it!

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did you know about the $130,000 payments to stormy daniels? >> no. >> why did michael cohen make this? >> you'll have to ask michael cohen. michael is my attorney and you'll have to ask michael. >> that was donald trump infamously throwing michael cohen under the bus on air force one. he is also lying. we have the evidence in trump's own voice that he knew about that payment and made it and reimbursed it. so, that was a lie. it's a reminder of how difficult it is even for the most loyal lawyers to go further than other lawyers are supposed to, they find themselves betrayed by donald trump. his defense lawyers are the only thing standing between him and a conviction. they were the only people attending on his behalf up to this week. he had a family member attending tuesday. his family members are back at

it. they had a judge rebuking them. with regard to new gag order violations, nobody forced your client, trump, to talk. and trump's new defense lawyer says judge, i agree with that. the kind of concession that makes you sound reasonable but could have set this notoriously difficult client. the judge tangled with the same defense lawyer last week saying quote, you are losing all credibility with this court. you don't want to lose all of your credibility at the beginning of a trial. that is how far this lawyer went. he pushed so hard in open court against the facts, against the odds, against what good lawyering would be because he knew trump wanted to hear that fight. and that still wasn't enough for his client defendant trump. trump wants the aggression in and out of court. and he knows his way around

legal troubles. that is certainly the case. trump's defense team has also had to deal with damning evidence including this mountain of receipts and texts. we did a special report on that last night. it makes it hard to mount what are called factual defenses where you say none of this even happened. we want to turn now to someone who knows a lot. who has battled bob muller. carolyn pelosi who represented a figure you may recall, george papadapolus. she represented him in the muller probe. great to have you back. >> thanks for having me, ari. >> i wanted to look at this from a defense perspective. not asking you to endorse everything. but give us the insight. trump's lawyer this week has been pushing hard and trump says it is not hard enough. and there are some available

defenses. this is admittedly simplifying it but one way to look at it is, and this is drawn from the opening arguments the lawyer said maybe nothing happened at all. right? so that means hey, trump wasn't involved in any of this. if anything happened, cohen did it. or if anything happened they prove elements of this. the things that happened are not against the law. your view of the available defenses. >> i like door number three the best. i said from the beginning of the case, i think this is a highly winable case, ari, and by winable, i think this jury could hang. i don't think realistically there is any possibility of an acquittal here with the manhattan jury. but as you know, it only takes one juror to hang. and i think the reason, ari, is because as much as the prosecution is trying to make this a simple case, it is not that simple. the way the da has chosen to charge this case is in fact

incredibly complicated even for lawyers and so i think it is highly likely the confusion element will get one juror. as you know this is a misdemeanor falsification of business records case which the statute of limitations lapsed on. they chose to have it as a felony count by their theory is that the felony falsification of business records were done in furtherance of concealing a secondary crime which is also a misdemeanor under new york state law which is a criminal conspiracy, excuse me, unlawful conspiracy to violate new york state election campaign laws which the object of that conspiracy is a federal election campaign law. now if you head is spinning, that is because it is a really complicated theory. and then there's a lot of issues. >> so, i'm going to slow you down a little bit. but just on that point, that what we call legal defense. not saying none of this

happened but hey, this isn't really a felony. you think is a stronger argument for them. we will continue our discussion here. this is one of those nights where we have breaking trial news so i will break something brand new. the control room alerted me we have this new evidence. this is something i know you and i and no one has heard yet because it has only been described. it is a tape cohen made. we played tapes that have been out there. this was played in court for the first time. it has donald trump's voice on it and it actually hasn't played yet. so the jury heard it and because trials are public, we do have now the trial evidence. so this is playing on msnbc tonight for the first time. as i'm told, we will be listening it together. it is from a vault of tapes we knew existed when cohen was working for trump. as described earlier in court has to do with them looking back on the deals they made. that kind of discussion. we have no reason to think that

trump knew he was being recorded which is why it is such interesting evidence. we will get your view on this. cohen and davidson. discussing how they feel about what they did. so it is cohen and davidson. we will listen and respond. let's play that. >> i can't even tell you how many times he said to me i hate the fact that we did it. and my comment to him was but every person you have spoken to told you was the right move. >> that is michael cohen. you can tell us how the defense team might be dealing with this because it relates to the segment we have been discussing. the context there, and we knew about this from the trial the other day, is the theory of the defense is oh, cohen made up

stuff later. that is hard to hold onto if we have this contemporaneous evidence along the way. and you don't have to believe everything he says or say he is a perfect guy. but that tape is being offered by the prosecution to show hey. as it went along, he kept mentioning that trump was involved. because he was. and when he says trump says i wish i didn't do it. that is not to hurt or help trump, but what he says trump said. your thoughts? >> yeah. again. i'm sticking with this is a shade of what todd said in his opening argument which is spoiler alert, it is not illegal to try to influence election. nothing from the tape there has anybody saying we committed a crime. right? this is my issue with a lot of the evidence. the keith davidson stuff? it is disgusting. it doesn't sit well with people, frankly. this is where trump might be

his own worst enemy. they certainly have their work cut out for them. the common thing defense attorneys do is say to the jury, look, you don't have to like my client or his lifestyle. you don't have to agree with anything he did. you can hate him, frankly. but, this is the united states of america and it is not illegal to pay hush money. the context obviously, the prosecution was trying to frame this in is it is illegal in the campaign finance law before the election. that goes well with that statement. that is nothing i would go crazy about if i was the defense attorney. >> you are describing a defense we have seen in many real courtrooms or in fictional ones. the opening scene in the devil's advocate. this pacino classic where the defense lawyer says you don't have to like my client. i don't like my client. but it is not popularity. it is whether he did this crime. great to have you including us getting that tape. and we'll be right back. ing th.

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thank you for joining us. you can find me online. "the last word" is up next. at 4:26 p.m. , maggie haberman posted this to the new york times live update of the trump trial, reporting from inside the courtroom. trump left the courtroom,