plus ask how to get up to an $800 prepaid card. don't wait- call today. thanks for spending time with us. i'll remind you, tomorrow we're doing another trump trial special. nats a new program with everything that's happens in the trial tomorrow along with a recap. i'll see you then. you can find me online at arimelber.com. or @arimelber if you use social media. hopefully see you tomorrow, 6:00 p.m. eastern for the trial special. "the reidout" with joy reid is up next. tonight on "the reidout" -- >> there's the right to protest, but not the right to cause chaos. people have the right to get an education. the right to get a degree. the right to walk across a campus safely without fear of being attacked.

>> president biden defended campus protests but condemns law breaking and hate speech as police crackdowns continue across the nation. also tonight, queen rania of jordan joins me on the war that sparked those protests and the extreme suffering being endured by the people of gaza. >> plus, i have a big announcement about a very exclusive interview coming up next week on "the reidout," so stay tuned for that. we begin tonight with four words. what have we done? that was the late night text message that keith davidson, the former lawyer for karen mcdougal and stormy daniels sent to the former editor of the "national enquirer," dylan howard, on the night of the 2016 presidential election. today, in a new york city courtroom, davidson continued his testimony in the first criminal trial of a former u.s. president, donald trump. claiming that in the text, there was an understanding between him

and howard that, quote, our activities may have in some way assisted the presidential campaign of donald trump. those activities referring to the brokering of hush money agreements alongside trump's former personal lawyer, michael cohen, and the former publisher of the "national enquirer," david pecker, to keep mcdougal and daniels silent about their alleged sexual indon'ters with trump ahead of the 2016 election. the prosecution has used davidson to lay the foundation and background for how the $130,000 payment to daniels came about. to explain cohen's motivation to keep daniels quiet. and the context surrounding her denials after the fact about the story when it went public. today, the defense also got their opportunity to cross-examine davidson, invoking what appeared to be a two-pronged strategy. the first was to make it clear davidson had no direct

connection to trump and could not prove that cohen or howard were actually acting on trump's orders. in fact, before today, the two men had never been in the same room. the other was to try to undermine davidson's credibility by implying he had associated himself with people who had bad reputations and seemed to suggest that davidson engaged in extortion for celebrity gossip. a point the witness repeatedly denied. and this followed this morning's second gag order violation hearing, where the prosecution made their case for four additional violations by trump. it comes after judge juan merchan ruled earlier this week that trump had violated the gag order nine times already, fining trump $1,000 for each violation, and warning him that continued violations could lead to jail time. court will be back in session tomorrow at 9:30 in the morning. joining me now, susanne craig, investigative reporter for "the new york times" and msnbc contributor who was at the

courthouse today. melissa murray, law professor add new york university and msnbc legal analyst and lachlan cartwright, former executive editor for "national enquirer" who is now a special correspondent for the hollywood reporter. thank you for being here. susanne, give me your impressions on today? >> it was a real grab bag. as i was going into court today, i read the indictment over again. i wanted to see where it was heading, the 32 counts. what we saw today was a lot of smoke, but we saw more about the conspiracy in terms of what was going on. and we saw, i thought, kind of one of the most important things we saw was on cross-examination of keith davidson. some people think the lawyers maybe should have stopped at have you ever met donald trump? no, but they just kept going. and they really dirtied him up. they dragged him into the guy who was dealing with sex tape brokers, trying to extort people.

it was really ugly, and he was very uncomfortable. i think what they were trying to do at the end of the day was to make it look like michael cohen is an unsavory fellow and this guy is an unsavory fellow and donald trump was the victim of an extortion plot. it was this afternoon in court, i think that is sort of where i landed, that donald trump once again was a victim in this case of these two unsavory guys. >> it doesn't feel like that would make sense. and a new york jury might doubt that donald trump because these are new yorkers, they know who that is, what do you make of that strategy of trying to dirty up kieth davidson? >> i think the dirtying up of keith davidson, of any of these witnesses is important for the defense. we saw the dirtying up of michael cohen and he hasn't taken the stand. everybody hates michael cohen. we hud a lot about how unreliable he was, how needy he was. he's an unsavory guy.

keith davidson was also there to corroborate cohen's story and it was necessary to drag him, too, as well as stormy daniels. he was also testifying as to the nature of payments to stormy daniels. not only did he get portrayed as a serial extortionist. she was also painted as someone trying to extract this money from donald trump before the 2016 election because she didn't believe he would win and therefore her story wouldn't be valuable after the fact. there was this rush to do this, michael cohen was trying to get it done, and so was keith davidson. and the only person not in cahoots is donald trump. >> is that credible as somebody who worked there? >> it rings true. today for me was fascinating because it was always like a tabloid, you know, rerun of lindsay lohan, hulk hogan, charlie sheen. we had all these characters we had written about and "national enquirer" brought back to life, and in that cross, i was watching keith davidson as the

defense were really going for him. you could see he was getting more and more agitated. he kept saying it's consideration. you know, he turned up his nose at the use of hush money and these payments, but it was consideration as how he phrased it, and inquiring minds want to know where dylan howard is. he keeps coming up in court, and very much in that message, what have we done, and we're several days in and don't know, you know, where he is. he hasn't been up here. >> one really kind of notable thing today was how they went after keith davidson in a way that they did not go after david pecker on cross. it was notable, and david pecker is the guy. >> he's the one who made the deal. >> you can look at these two in isolation and talk about it, opening question on cross was have you ever met donald trump? boy, david pecker sure has. they really, i thought, comparatively went light on him

on cross. >> why go light on him? >> i i thought it was really interesting that one of the episodes that was raised in the second request for enforcement of the gag order was a statement that donald trump had made in response to some reporters questioning at a press conference that happened before the trial. it was about david pecker. he's asked a lot of questions but chose to answer this question about david pecker. david is a nice guy, david is really nice. and the intonation that the prosecution is making is this is basically skirting up to the edge of tampering and influence. he's basically like david has been really nice to me, it would be unfortunate if he stopped being nice. >> let's play stormy daniels. this is stormy daniels on jimmy kimmel after donald trump's state of the union, january 30th, 2018. take a look. >> did you sign this letter that was released today? >> i don't know. did i? >> that you can say, right?

>> that doesn't look like my signature, does it? >> you're saying perhaps this letter was written and released without your approval. >> hmm. >> do you know where it came from? do you have any idea? >> i do not know. >> so -- it came from the internet. >> you did not have anything to do with this. >> i also work for the fbi and i'm a man, according to the internet. >> here's a picture of the letter, a january 30th, 2018 denial written for stormy daniels by keith davidson. i have been asked countless times to comment on reports of an alleged sexual relationship i had with donald trump many years ago. the fact of the matter is each party to this alleged affair denied its existence in 2006, 2016, 2018, i am not denying it because i was paid hush money has been reported in overseas owned tabloids. i'm reporting that because it

never happened. >> this was another fun moment where keith davidson presented this sort of nondenial denial, and he kind of had to reason with the jury, if you break it down in that language, it's true. and you sit there going, he actually said there's no romantic -- >> this is so great because every reporter gets these. she was saying there was no romantic sexual relationship. and then he was asked about, is that a truthful statement? he said yes, and he broke it down. he said there was no romantic relationship. and there was no sexual relationship. it was sex. so they're denying it through that way. as well, he said there was no hush money because it was a civil contract. >> consideration. >> every reporter has gotten these nondenial denials to the point where one reporter who worked on this at the "wall street journal," he's now at the

times, he said we knew it was a nondenial denial. >> they're going to put stormy daniels on the stand and she's going to say what she's going to say, right? >> the big news is michael cohen, but by the time we get to that, everyone will be bloodied up. i don't know that that matters so much for this jury. at some point, the jurors are going to be anesthetized to the filth that's already been haired in the trial. they knew it would be filthy when it started and it's been predictably filthy. at some point, you become inured to it. by the time you get to what michael cohen is going to say and see the documents because whatever you want to say about the documents, they're not filthy. >> and there are recordings. >> a report today where they played that recording with michael cohen and donald trump where he's talking about gathering up, buying all these information in case he gets hit by a truck. >> because you had all of this,

like the defense emphasizing, donald trump is outside of the scheme, outside of the scream, you never met him, but there he is on tape talking to michael cohen, i wish we hadn't done that, i wish we hadn't paid the hush money. >> and why is he asking how is our girl karen? >> they're really pushing that angle. >> this is why it feels like it doesn't make any sense. you can say keith davidson is a terrible person. you can say "national enquirer" is a tabeloid, so what. if these people, good people or bad, got together and did a scheme to cover up because of this election, they did it. they're all saying they did it. >> keith davidson throughout, david pecker. >> part of it too is these defense lawyers have an uphill battle. michael cohen might be the crappiest witness ever, but donald trump is a pretty crappy defendant too. >> first, do we really think michael cohen is going to be a bad wince. he has done this show a dozen

times. michael cohen is a practices communicator. he was donald trump's go-to communicator. he's done podcasts, interviews, he has his own podcast. michael cohen is not going to be a bad witness. it's such a ridiculous argument. >> he'll be able to communicate in ways the jury will find relatable and be able to absorb, but he has a fleet of louis vuitton baggage. >> that all relates to donald trump. >> again, it opens the door for impeaching his credibility. my point is, donald trump is orchestrating this defense. you see him communicating with todd blanche, he's the guy in charge here. i think that's got to be difficult. he wants a certain narrative to be advanced. i think they are trying to advance this narrative. it may not be the best narrative. >> we'll have another come back on the other side because we have so much more. all sticking around for much more on the first criminal trial of a former president and all the tabloid fun that took place

today. "the reidout" continues after this.

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all right, back with me, my new podcast, susanne craig, melissa murray, and lockland cartwright. i'm told donald trump at some point walked out to cameras and said i'm not allowed to testify because of the gag order. and todd blanche, his lawyer, nodded like maybe. >> the judge has not ruled on

this second request to enforce the gag order, but judge merchan was pretty stern today with this defendant, telling mr. blanche that they really need to steer clear of violating this gag order. so again, keep as far away from this as possible. he's really concerned, i think, about the prospect of witnesses being intimidated, jurors being intimidated. one of the discussions at the gag order hearing today was about how donald trump had railed about the jury basically being comprised entirely of democrats and manhattan being entirely democratic. >> that doesn't mean he can't testify. the gag order has nothing to do with that, right? >> he can testify in his own defense. this is part of donald trump walking back the statement, i am going to testify. >> he wants an excuse. >> he's not going to talk anymore, we think, about the witnesses, about the jurors. and he's definitely not going to be talking about himself. this is the setup for that and we're getting there. i think the real meat of it, at least todd blanche seemed to

understand the gravity of what the judge said earlier today. >> i was promised an alice in wonderland story in the break. >> what a bizarre moment. we were talking about one in particular that came out in court today. i keith davidson retold to the jury how he was in a store and it was this alice in wonderland setting and michael cohen was having a melt down, saying he's not going to washington, trump is not bringing him on as a.g. or a position, and he goes on a full-blown rant so he thinks that michael cohen is even suicidal. >> he says michael cohen was saying he won't even pay me for the hush money. to pay him back. he was having a full meltdown, and michael cohen said michael was heading to washington to be chief of staff or the attorney general. >> the attorney general? >> and was that supposed to be part of the deal for the hush money, for him paying it? >> we don't know. >> that part is unclear. it could just be that michael

cohen thought as being within -- >> being loyal. >> also being in the inner circle that he would be given some kind of position in the administration. he would be brought along. but again, attorney general seems -- >> contemporaneously, donald trump is calling in this period in 2016, and he's saying, and he won't even pay me back. like he's talking about it then. i think that was the point of introducing -- of the discussion, why we heard it. it was interesting to hear that, that he is saying donald trump knew. >> it could also be the case that they're perhaps intimating to the jury that maybe part of this was he was also trading posts for favors. i mean, like, we saw this later with the whole thing with jeffrey -- i have forgotten all of these defendants. the acting attorney general who became -- >> jeffrey clark. >> jeffrey clark. again, this is sort of like help me out with this. >> quid pro quo. >> i think maybe this was part

of that as well. >> other question about whether davidson was really just a top source for the enquirer. talk about that. the idea is he had a lot of clients he was putting in front of them and getting a lot of money for them. >> and one of those was the women involved with charlie sheen, which came about in court today. david pecker has testified to this, and i'm assuming from my time there, keith davidson was a top contact of dylan howard, much like gina rodriguez. >> and dylan howard being the editor. >> the editor in chief, the person who isn't testifying as far as we currently know. davidson was intimately involved with ami in terms of repping different women, different people who were involved with sex tapes and he's a fixer for all intents and purposes. this is one of i think the most time he's spent in court for some time and he is used to sending threatening letters and getting on the phone with people and doing deals for consideration. >> what would be the relevance

of proving that davidson was selling lots of these stories, because that isn't the point of this case? the point is whether or not specifically the stormy daniels payment and the repayment that is being complained about by michael cohen has to do with the election. >> part of is to paint him as a shady character, always shaking down people. charlie sheen, hulk hogan, lindsay lohan. and donald trump is one of them. and part of this constellation of famous people who at some time or another got shaken down. >> you could tell davidson was getting very annoyed. he could see where it was going and that's why he kept saying this is consideration. i'm not this shakedown person. >> definitely not as good a witness as david pecker. i also felt like we got dragged through the gutter, thank you, donald trump, for that. that was really something. >> as you're sitting in court, sitting there, because i know the day i was there, i was watching the jury as much as i was watching what was happening

to see how attentive they were. what was the jury doing during this? were they attentive? >> watching them was like watching a tennis match. back and forth and back and forth. they're taking notes. they're very much concentrating on what's going on. some are glancing over to trump to see -- >> if he's awake. >> to see his reaction. >> was he awake? >> as far as -- i was back on to him for most of the day. it's clear that they are invested and clear they're looking at -- >> these kinds of details would be interesting to the average person. like, there's a benefit to both the defense and prosecution because it keeps the jury's interest. >> i wonder if there's something specific about this being a new york trial. there's something that new yorkers understand about this world that i think maybe other people just don't get. that i think it won't necessarily be as shocking and i'm not sure it helps donald trump to try to paint him as this poor guy in the city where he built the reputation as the

lifestyles of the rich and famous developer. >> paging john barron, right? for years, donald trump grew up in this culture, tabloids, and he would manipulate them himself to the fact where he had an alter ego and he would call in and say he was somebody else and plant story about people or say positive things about himself under the pseudonym john barron. we have a lot of tabloids and they're familiar with these antics. it was interesting to see a lawyer in the middle of this brokering these deals, but i think you're right. it's somewhat familiar. >> do we expect -- number one, davidson is done as a witness, right? there was some hope hicks intimation that she might be coming up soon. >> they're trying to re-enforce the foundation of this meeting in august of 2015 at trump tower pecker said i'll be the eyes and ears. michael cohen was at the meeting, donald trump, and also

hope hicks. >> we're still in the conspiracy phase. >> i think the next player to help confirm that is hope hicks. >> there's a nice rhythm that the prosecution has going, so there's a substantive meaty witness like keith davidson and then there's a sort of -- here's the forensic analyst, who was testifying as to the authenticity of all of the evidence that was going to be introduced which is an interesting move because donald trump and his lawyers typically don't stipulate to the authenticity of evidence. we saw this in the civil fraud trial, in the e. jean carroll trial. what that means is you have to have these authentication witnesses and the evidence gets read into the record twice. >> doesn't seem like a wise defense strategy, but i don't know. >> you get two bites. >> susanne craig, melissa murray, and lockland cartwright, i would keep them here all night, but we have to let them go. >> coming up, president biden

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place at colleges and universities as are police responses in some case. the campus of portland state university in oregon was closed today following the occupation of the library by pro-palestinian protesters since monday. the portland police entered the library today, arresting at least 12 people. it came just hours after a chaotic scene overnight at ucla, where the protesters camp is now a pile of debris following a predawn raid. police in riot gear moved in to dismantle that encampment early this morning breaking through the crowd with flash bangs. more than 200 protesters and counterprotesters who had rushed the encampment yesterday and set off what appeared to be fireworks were arrested by the california highway patrol. it is not clear how many were students. also overnight at dartmouth college in new hampshire, a 65-year-old history professor was among the more than 90 people arrested. the school says some were students and some had no affiliation to the ivy league

school. nationwide, there have been more than 2100 arrests at college protests, according to an nbc news tally. today, president biden made his first public remarks on this week's campus protests and condemned the violence at some of the universities. >> dissent is essential to democracy, but it must never lead to disorder or denying the rights of others so students can finish the semester and their college education. it's basically a matter of fairness, a matter of what's right. there's the right to protest, but not the right to cause chaos. >> meanwhile, at columbia university, professors are calling for a vote of no confidence in their president. following her decision to call in the nypd to clear out the hamilton hall and encampment protests there tuesday without consulting the university senate as required in school bylaws. columbia's chapter of the american association of university professors said the

actions culminated in an horrific police attack on our students, adding that armed counterterrorism police on campus, student arrests, and harsh discipline were not the only path through this crisis. the professors' statement noted how brown university engaged with student protesters in response to their demands. brown students celebrated tuesday, after reaching a deal with the university to clear out tents after the university committed to a vote on students' proposal to divest from israel. northwestern university reached a similar deal, students cleared their camp after the school agreed to disclose investments and business ties. meanwhile, in the middle east, there was movement on a proposal put forward for hamas to release 33 hostages in exchange for a 40-day cease-fire and the release of potentially thousands of palestinian prisoners. hamas said it was sending a delegation to egypt for further talks in another sign of

progress. the stakes couldn't be higher for hopes of a pause in seven months of war that has killed more than 34,000 palestinians according to gaza's health ministry. even as israeli prime minister netanyahu continues to vow that israel will mount a military operation in the southern city of rafah, with or without a cease-fire deal. we will dig into that and much more with a special guest, queen rania of jordan. that's coming up next. that's why my go-to is nurtec odt. for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults. it's the only migraine medication that helps treat & prevent, all in one. don't take if allergic to nurtec odt. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. people depend on me. without a migraine, i can be there for them. talk to your doctor about nurtec odt today.

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majesty, queen rania of jordan. thank you for being here. >> it's a pleasure to be here. >> this is a difficult time. and circumstance to be talking with you, as of today, 34,000 people have been killed in gaza. there is the real threat of mass starvation taking place. and as we know, you are not just the queen of jordan. you are also a palestinian woman of palestinian heritage. so i would just love for you to reflect for a moment on what's happening in gaza, as the queen of jordan, but also as a palestinian woman, as a mom. >> well, you know, i think it's not just my background but i think for everyone in the arab world, we have been quite devastated by what we have been seeing in the last seven months. as traumatic and devastating as the events of october 7th have

been, we can't justify the way that this war is being fought. you know, this is not a normal war. every war is ugly, but this is humanitarian workers who have seen everything have said they have never seen anything like it. the collective punishment of people, the displacement of 1.7 million people from their homes. some people displaced more than once. the fact that out of those 35,000 people killed, 70% are women and children. and this conflict, just to put it in perspective, as killed more children in five months than all of the conflicts in the world in the past four years. so children have not been killed at this rate in any other time in history. and it's had the highest kill rate since the genocide in rwanda in 1984. so there is outrage in the arab world and around the world at what we're seeing. but also there's outrage at the world's apathy, the fact this is

allowed to happen. rightfully after october 7th, the whole world stood up and condemned those actions. but we're not seeing the same kind of reaction towards what's happening today. and we're seeing just people letting israel violate international law and international humanitarian law without any consequence. and that is creating a sense of disillusionment in the arab world and why are international laws applied selectively. do we matter in this world? this is really having a paradigm shift in the way we're veeing our world order as terrible as what's happening in gaza is, i think the way our world order is today is actually looking substantially worse. >> let's talk about some of the reaction because you did see south africa bring a case in the international court of justice at the hague against israel for its conduct of the war. we recently saw prime minister

netanyahu make a statement, a video statement, expressing concern that the icc also at the hague may bring arrest warrants against himself and other members of his government over the conduct of the war. what is your reaction to that? is that the kind of reaction that you feel is more appropriate to see justice done? and do you have faith in it? >> you know, israel -- israeli officials get very upset when they hear the words genocide or apartheid and dismiss them and say these are big words that people are throwing around. now, international criminal court of justice is the highest court in the land. they have deemed it plausible that israel is committing acts of genocide against the palestinians. and they have since issued provisional orders asking them to prevent acts of genocide and to provide unhindered aid. my take here is for them to come out with a final ruling but we cannot wait. people are being killed today. history is being written today.

and we're already very late, and the longer we wait, the larger the stain on our global consciousness, and the fact that, you know, we're talking about semantics, is it genocide, isn't it? the fact we're even debating it should send shock waves to our international community. who wants to err on the side of genocide. those who are attacking the icc rulings are dismissing the safeguards we have in our world to insure nations adhere to certain standards of conduct. i think it's important the icc take action, that the icj take action, but we don't want symbolic gestures. we have seen a change of tone and language from the u.s. towards israel, trying to compel israel to not go into rafah for example or allow more aid in, but at the end of the day, officials in israel have shown a reluctant to heed counsel from allies. we need measures on the ground

to actually say, illegal settlements should be stopped, to say that aid should go in. that we are not going to continue to provide offensive weapons that are killing thousands of innocent lives. >> do you believe that prime minister benjamin netanyahu is a war criminal? >> it doesn't matter what i believe. i think it matters what international law says. but i can say, i'm no legal expert, bought what i can say is what's happening in gaza today, when you deprive people and hinder the entrance of aid, when you adopt starvation as a weapon of war, that is collective punishment. that is a war crime. when you displace an entire population, that is a war crime. when you use -- when you kill indiscriminately so many civilians and the whole argument of human shields, that's ringing hollow. when you have a patch of land as small, being one of the most

densely populated places in the world and use an unprecedented number of massive bombs, those 2,000-pound bombs or the unguided bombs, so called dumb bombs, how can you not kill civilians? and when you say human shields as well, wherever hamas leaders are, by default, there's going to be civilians around them. so are we supposed to think that israel that is also using a.i. generated systems to generate their largest number of targets, you know, prioritizing quantity over quality, really sort of doing away with all the principles of proportionality and distinction between combaddant and civilian, they have done away with those principles. how are you supposed to believe they are trying to avoid innocent civilians when 80% of schools have been bombed. 80% of health centers, 60% of houses have been destroyed.

was there a hamas operative under every ambulance, every clinic, every school yard? are we supposed to believe that? it's very clear israel has no problem targeting civilians. and that they assign very little value to palestinian life. and the impulse in israel whenever there's violence against it is to punish all of the palestinians for the acts of a few. so that is collective punishment, and that is a war crime. >> we have seen a reaction to what we're seeing on the ground in gaza around the world. we have seen protests around the world. we have seen them in the university on college campuses. there are images in gaza of children holding up signs thanking students at columbia university and other universities for their support. but we have also seen a massive crackdown on those protests in the united states. what do you make of those protests and do you think that they will change anything? >> well, look, we can all agree that law and order are extremely

important. nobody wants chaos. and anti-semitism is a real thing, and it is on the rise. and no student should feel unsafe on their campus. i think passions are running so high on all sides that we're losing sight of what the students are actually protesting. and we're spending so much time talking about how should these protests be handled rather than looking at what the kids are protesting which is the reality in gaza. i have seen coverage of the protests but i haven't seen enough coverage of what they're protesting. we need to face the realities on the ground of what's happening in gaza itself. at the same time, dismissing these students as they don't know what they're talking about or they need an education or they're just protesting for the sake of it, i think this collective dismissal is not only patronizing, it's quite insulting for some of these students who know exactly why they're out there and they have looked at these issues. there are always bad actors,

people who want to crash the protest and hijack the message, but there are a also a lot of people who are standing for something. for them, this issue is about social justice, not just about palestine. they're protesting the discrepancy between a world they were told should be this way and the way it actually is. they are saying, you know, that yes, we want you to divest from illegal occupation, but tare also suggesting that there's more to the story than we have been led to believe. that this whole narrative that we have been taught about israel always being the victim and palestinians who are the occupied always being the aggressor is not entirely accurate. a lot of people are invested in the story, and i think when somebody challenges something that you have been invested with for so long, your reaction is to want to challenge that, to defend what you believe in, but i think, you know, it pushes you out of your comfort zone, and out of your comfort zone is really where progress happens. when you mentioned my

palestinian background, and because of that background, i'm aware of the fact that i might identify with the palestinian side more, and that's why every day i challenge myself to actually put myself in the shoes of an average israeli to try to see things from their point of view. and relative of a hostage or just an average person, who is worried about the missiles firing on them. i try to think of that. all i want is for people to just for once try to put themselves in the shoes of palestinians. >> what about president biden? how would >> what about president biden? how would you assess how he has handled the situation so far and what would you like to see the united states do going forward? >> i want people to understand that in the eyes of the world, the u.s. is part of this war and they feel that the u.s. is enabling this war.

that israeli officials themselves say we could not wage this war without the support of the u.s., because you provide the arms and provide all of the assistance and also you use your veto powers, et cetera. so clearly the u.s. has a lot of leverage over israel and for many people this leverage has not been used as effectively as it could be. even though the unconditional support for israel has for many past any reasonable catches. there has definitely been a change in tone and language from president biden. we have seen that. he is trying to apply pressure, but i think words alone are not sufficient. as i said, there is a great deal of a sense of impunity and i would say, belligerents, among israeli officials. where you know is -- where you know international law does not have to apply to them. >> there have been protests inside israel, as well, so there does seem to be a left

that is against this war and also holds prime and mister netanyahu responsible for the failures to anticipate the october 7 attack. >> most of the protests against the war are because they want to free the hostages, not because they are against the war. so i think for many if you could free the hostages, then you could continue the war. that speaks to just how far israeli society has gone. you know, there is an omnipresent, deep, almost cultural anti-palestinian racism that exists now in israeli society. that is as a result of decades of statements by officials, by government, by media, by military individuals, that says that palestinians are inherently a violent people. that they only understand the language of force, you know? and that they are always wrong

and that israel is always justified in inflicting whatever pain because they have it coming. they deserve it. they don't suffer like us. they don't have the same morality is -- morality as we do. that is reflected in the statements we have heard from officials. i am not saying it. they are saying it. they are saying human animals. they are saying that every single cause and is a target. saying that they only understand the laws of the jungle. how can it be okay to be saying that? >> so, given that, as we wrap up here, are there reasons for hope? there is still talk of a two state solution. still talk of somehow there being and after when this war is finally over. are there reasons for hope, given the region, given the heat in the region and given what you've said? >> if i have hope it is because i believe the status quo is not sustainable, not for israelis, not for palestinians. we cannot go back to the days

before the war. that status quo has been broken forever and it was based on illegal occupation that fueled fear and insecurity on both sides. it is a status quo that has no political horizons and therefore made the option of violence more attractive. i know the people roll their eyes when we say's two state solution, because they think it is not viable, but the fact that we are where we are today is all the more reason, a greater impetus for us to have a two state solution, because what is the alternative? at the end of the day there will be no solution until the palestinians get autonomy, human rights and statehood. when i say statehood i mean a sovereign state. >> queen rania, thank you so much. >> thank you. coming up, a big announcement that i'm very excited about. stay with us. that can last fo. ahhh, there's nothing like a day out with friends.

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lighting every soccer match at shell energy stadium. we're moving forward with the houston dash. because we're moving forward with everybody.

shell. powering progress.

i have an exciting announcement about a very special interview coming up on monday. wnba superstar brittney griner joins me in her first cable interview. we talked about so many things, including the frightening moment she realized she might be heading to prison for possession of cannabis vape cartridges. talk to me about that moment when you realized that those cartridges had accidentally remained in your bag, in the

airport, in russia. >> it was definitely a freefall. like have you ever been so scared her, -- so scared, to the core? i'm talking about a loved one endangered type fear. that feeling is what went through my whole body. i literally saw my life flash before my eyes. i was like it is over. i was deathly afraid. >> we also talked about donald trump attacking the prisoner exchange deal that freed her, what she wrote in a letter to vladimir putin and how much awareness she had about the massive campaign back home to free her. be sure to join us monday night for my exclusive interview with brittney griner and that is tonight's "the reidout". inside with jen psaki starts now. good evfr