to be dealing with, and they are telling me that they're welcoming this work. i was talking to the ceo and a patient advocate who was talking to me about a woman who came from florida, she drove 11 hours. she was a mother of three. she came here. she was stressed and they told me they felt they were relieved that they were able to give her the health care she needed, which in her case was giving her an abortion. i have to show people again, we rarely get to be inside an abortion clinic. when you see these chairs it looks sort of like a spa, they have purple walls to calm the women. they want to make sure the women here when they come, they can feel like they're taking a load off. they're coming with all this anxiety and all this stress from having to travel from out of town, ryan. >> yamiche alcindor, thank you for that report. we appreciate it. that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." follow the show on social

media @mitchellreports. "chris jansing reports" starts right now. good day. i'm chris jansing live at msnbc headquarters in new york city. college campuses from coast to coast are on edge at this hour. new pro-palestinian protests active across roughly two dozen states, even after police cleared encampments overnight at places like columbia university. will an ongoing police presence enforce a calm there or could things get worse before they get better? plus, a new abortion law going into effect in florida today, leaving few options for women seeking abortions across the southeast. the latest from there and arizona where democrats along with a handful of republicans are considering a repeal of the near total abortion ban dating back 160 years. and donald trump out of the courthouse and on the campaign trail in wisconsin just a few hours from now. will he tempt fate and test his

gag order even after the judge threatened him with the possibility of jail time. we'll dig into that coming up. we start with the chaos and crackdowns on university campuses nationwide as officials are increasingly calling on police to clear pro-palestinian encampments that have effectively paralyzed dozens of schools. more than 1,500 people have now been arrested, but it's too early to say if that will convince protesters to back off or whether they'll keep at it. ultimately impacting finals and graduation ceremonies. earlier today, we saw police face to face with protesters on the university of wisconsin's campus in madison, and it was the police who ultimately walked away. a far more chaotic scene unfolded at ucla overnight where law enforcement was called in to break up violent clashes between pro-israeli and pro-palestinian demonstrators. and police arrested nearly 300 people in new york, 173 of them at city college where the nypd

tore down a palestinian flag. others came from columbia university where the mayor says the occupation of one college building was led by people from outside the university. >> it was about external actors hijacking a peaceful protest and influence to escalate. there's nothing peaceful about barricaing buildings, destroying property or dismantling security cameras. we cannot allow what should be a lawful protest to turn into a violent spectacle that servs no purpose. >> antonia hylton is outside columbia university, nbc's guad venegas is. and on set with me, catherine christian, former assistant district attorney in manhattan and an msnbc legal analyst. so antonia, what's the latest? what's happening on campus at

columbia? >> reporter: hey, chris, well, there is an ongoing protest right outside the gates, right in front of hamilton hall. there are students, faculty members, other people part of the columbia community expressing their anger at what they saw transpire here last night. almost every student and faculty member that i speak to says it was extremely disturbing to see the nypd come back for the second time, arrest about 119 people here, and that include students who have been e associated with the protest movement and also people who are not who simply described feeling like this was an escalation that deeply affects them, just as being members of the community, having to see it get to this point. i have one of the columbia professors here with me right now, joseph slaughter. thank you so much for making time to join us. so from the faculty perspective, what was it like to see all of this unfold last night? >> i was standing here last night almost behind you watching the assaulting of a vehicle pull up to hamilton hall. it was devastating.

faculty near me, students near me were crying, in despair over the fact that the administration has escalated to the point where they're bringing in an assault team to shut down student protests. i can understand that the building occupation is a different matter than a completely peaceful nonviolent encampment that existed on the campus for the last ten days or so. but the fact that the building could be occupied is partly -- is due partly to the gross mismanagement of this administration. it has escalated consistently for the last seven months. these students have been attempting to get what they understand to be a human rights message about justice for palestine out for seven months, and at every turn they have been met with repressive actions to shut down their ability to speak, to demonstrate, to try to make their voices heard in what they see as the greatest human rights crisis of the moment, and if this administration in failing to listen to its students beginning in october and november, in failing to hear the voices of its faculty,

experts in the field, experts in the area coming up with their kind of administrative decisions among a small cabinet of ministers at the top of the -- underneath the president, they have consistently escalated and kettled the speech of the students. >> they released a statement this morning saying they tried to have productive conversations with the students that went on for eight days. essentially saying they did their best to avoid what happened here. >> they did not do their best over the previous six months. if they had had those productive conversations with the students when they were clearly making their statements in absolutely peaceful, vigil like manners in november and in october, we wouldn't be here today. if they had -- if they had bothered to sit down with the students -- my understanding is that this president refused to meet with the leaders of the two student groups that she unilaterally suspended in

november, refused to meet to talk with them about their demands, about their concerns, refused to hear the vast majority of students who see this as an unfolding potentially genocide in gaza. >> reporter: there will now be an nypd presence until may 17th, past graduation. there's clearly a hope to go back to business as usual here and to make sure people can have the graduation celebrations they've always envisioned. do you think that's -- what's b about to happen here? can this campus go back to normal? >> i don't see how there's any going back to normal for a normal commencement, for a normal graduation. the protest behind us is actually primarily faculty who are demonstrating both at having been themselves locked out of campus in support of the students and in protest of militarizing the campus, in support of the students' rights to speech and the missteps and gross mismanagement of the senior administration. >> did the students take it too far by entering hamilton hall?

>> hamilton hall is to change the -- change the approach. in my opinion, they had -- they had won with their message with the encampment on campus. they had spawned a nationwide even international movement. they had raised the issues that they're concerned about to the level that you all are here, that the press is all over this campus. their voices were being heard. in that sense, i think they had already achieved what they really needed to achieve, the entry into hamilton hall is not probably necessary, right? they clearly felt some kind of -- some kind of desperation. i don't know, i can't explain their actions. >> thank you so much, professor slaughter. we really appreciate your time. >> thank you. >> thank you for being here. even when i speak to pro-israeli students and community members here at columbia, the one thing it seems everybody here can agree on is that the administration is at fault for

this escalation, that at some point if you are one of the pro-palestinian students or faculty members that there could have been better negotiations or if you are one of the students who has felt intimidated or harassed or hurt by all that's unfolded here on campus, that she could have stepped in earlier to assure that those conversations calmed down, that they got to a level that could make them feel safe. many of these students have left campus. they won't even be here for any of the celebrations, so everyone on all sides feels this immense disappointment right now and this feeling that just because hamilton hall is clear now, this story isn't over, chris. >> thank you very much for that, antonia. so jim, look, the politics of this are extraordinarily complicated. the criticism of the administration, of the president of columbia, has been widespread. i do want you to talk about what we saw last night in the context of that police have been asked to stay on campus at least until may 17th. from a police perspective, first

of all, was that an assault team, which is the way that the professor described it. he said it was not necessary. from your perspective, was it? i want to get your take on what we saw unfold there. >> yes, chris, thank you. look, the politics of this are very complicated. the politics of the middle east, palestine, and all the issues that encumber that. i have been to tel aviv and jerusalem after all the suicide bombings in the second indy fa da with the israeli national police, and you know, i kind of feel for that situation over there, and that situation now is at columbia and other universities. so it's an intractable problem that the police cannot solve and do not want to solve. the police are called in when university leadership decides that the destruction of property and occupying of their building, you know, has to be stopped, and i disagree with calling these

officers from the strategic response group and the emergency service unit, you know, militarized, assault teams and so forth. it's not true at all. look, the officers that went in the window from the emergency services unit first and then the strategic response group, nobody had a rifle. you didn't see people carrying, you know, rifles even with tear gas or big, you know, assault rifles like we normally see a s.w.a.t. team has to use. they only have their side arms and they have helmets. that's to protect them from getting hit by rocks and bottles and getting hurt, face shields, protection for their chest. police don't have to go in and be assaulted and killed. so they have to have this defensive gear, and you know, people are offended by defensive gear maybe. but that's not the fault of the police. >> let me ask you, you said police can't solve, and they don't want to solve this, and i think that's -- that sales like a reasonable statement to a lot

of people, but do you worry that doing this further inflames an already volatile situation, that it puts police in the position, frankly, of causing what we're seeing right now, which is not just these demonstrations that are happening on columbia, but they're popping up on other campuses against the idea of police going in and arresting these students? >> well, i agree with that. i mean, a lot of people may be offended that police arrest protesters. remember, the protesters are engaging in civil disobedience for the purpose of being disobedient and they know the consequences of that. being arrested and given a ticket like they are in new york for trespass. when violence ensues police have to be there to protect the citizens and protect property from being damaged and destroyed. it's the tactics that are used that have to be looked at. i think the nypd used appropriate tactics. they had a strong show of force.

we didn't see any kind of abuse or police brutality there. they did exactly what they were supposed to do. l.a. quite a different violent situation last night where the l.a.p.d. and lasd had arrived where two different factions were fighting. certainly that's a requirement for police action to show up then. so when there's violence and, you know, destructive property, you know, damage to property, threats to burn buildings, you're going to have to have police, and that's just the way a democracy works. i mean, people can say, well, we want to damage property. we want to fight, we want to hurt people, but we don't want any police. well, that's just sort of ridiculous. >> catherine, this now moves from police to i'm sure some friends in your old office at the manhattan d.a.'s office and according to wnbc, which is our local station here in new york, they say that protesters who were arrested will be charged with third degree burglary, criminal mischief and trespassing, protesters

participating in the encampment on the lawn as opposed to those inside the building will be charged with trespassing and disorderly conduct. again, going back to whatever the criticism of the administration is and whether or not they handled it well leading up to this, does that play into the decisions that get made? does the fact that they're either a student or somebody from outside play into it? what will they be looking at to decide who gets charged with what? >> well, it's about proof, so it's very easy for the ones who were found inside hamilton hall, they can't say, you know, they weren't there because they would have been arrested because those are the ones who will probably be charged with the burglary because they entered and remained unlawfully in the building in the attempt to commit a crime. they apparently destroyed property, video surveillance and furniture. that would be the crime. in new york that's called criminal mischief. the people who were on the lawn, again, this is a private

university. they called in nypd because there were people who were there without permission or authority or who stayed beyond when they were supposed to be there. so those would be the charges. it still has to be proven. many of these protesters are disguising their identity by wearing masks or scarves or hoodies, so the ones that they found in the building are easy. >> so guad. officials at the university of texas at austin where you are have said this more than half of the people who they've arrested are not affiliated with the university. tell us more about what's happening where you are. >> reporter: chris, they released a statement saying that 45 of the individuals that were arrested on monday did not have an affiliation to the university, and that same release had some more information. they said that they confiscated weapons from these protesters and the weapons they say were confiscated included guns, chains, bricks and rocks.

they also add more information saying that officers have been assaulted, head butted, and they say that their cars have had their tires slashed. i spoke with the university and asked for photos of the weapons that they've confiscated or videos where we can see officers that they say were assaulted. they did send one video and photos of a bucket of rocks that they say was found in one of the adjacent buildings, but that's all the photos or videos that they were able to share. as of now, they say that's all they can share along with that release from yesterday. meanwhile, today what we have is heavy police presence. we've had protesters here for the last five or six days. yesterday was a much more peaceful protest from what we saw on monday which is when things escalated and about 79 individuals were arrested, so they had planned for a big protest today, a lot of the groups in support of palestine had shared a flyer on social media, and then early this morning, they shared another flyer indicating that that

protest would be postponed, but of course the heavy police presence this year, they've shut down the main street that goes into the lawn where all of these protests have happened, chris. >> across the country again, catherine, we're looking at 1,500 people have been arrested. would you anticipate that in most cases -- and i know you're a prosecutor in new york so you don't want to speak for texas or any of those other places, would you think most of them would get a fine, they may try to settle it, may even have the charges dropped. >> i think the ones who are students, they will be treated differently than the ones who had no business being there and they were agitators. you're student, you're in college, you're protesting, you're not going to have a criminal record. somebody who's destroying property, they will be treated differently. >> thank you all very much. in 60 seconds, today the ripple effects of roe v. wade being overturned are being felt coast to coast. we'll explain the new abortion restrictions that went into effect just hours ago in the

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so you can give it everything. tylenol. number one doctor recommended for arthritis pain. it's being described as the biggest jolt to abortion access since the supreme court overturned roe v. wade. starting today, florida women with unwanted pregnancies will have their futures decided by an ultrasound, and if more than six weeks pregnant, the closest clinic will be three states away. "the washington post" describes tears and despair at a fort lauderdale abortion clinic in the final hours before the near total ban went into effect at midnight. the same emotions our marissa parra found in force pierce where a young woman, cassie told her she can't afford another child. >> i wish that they understood that there is more to having a baby than just birthing it. >> by the end of this week, there might be women who are just two weeks further along than you, and they wouldn't be able to get the same procedure.

>> i would really feel for them because it's just not right. >> across the country in arizona, any minute now we expect the senate will convene and try to repeal another near total ban exposing the vast political divide that's happening coast to coast. in a new interview with time magazine, donald trump would not take a position on either a national abortion ban or on states prosecuting women for having abortions claiming that overturning roe has, quote, taken tremendous pressure off everybody. conversely, president biden just released a new video in response to trump after calling the aftermath of roe a nightmare, and vice president kamala harris just landed in jacksonville where next hour she will deliver the administration's message in person that republicans just don't care about women. nbc's marissa parra is on the ground in jacksonville, nbc's dana griffin is in phoenix, arizona, for us. also with me, "washington post"

senior national political correspondent and msnbc political analyst ashley parker and cofounder of "axios" and author of the new book "just the good stuff" jim vander high. what are you hearing from abortion providers there? >> reporter: i'm already hearing from clinics that they're starting the process of turning abortion seekers away. one abortion clinic director telling me minutes ago she has already seen patients that were just days over six weeks, and chris, they had no idea. so we've been reporting on how clinics across the state, not just where we are, have been scrambling over the last several weeks working longer hours, working through lunch, squeezing in at max capacity every single appointment they could, especially with the priority on those abortion seekers and appointments that would no longer be eligible come today's deadline. remember, this could all change come november. this is something that will be on the november ballot.

amendment 4 would protect abortion rights until viability. that's 24 weeks that would replace this current six-week ban. it will require more than a simple majority. it will require 60% or higher. that is a higher threshold than we've seen in other states. and so we have seen democrats doing a full court press on this. we've seen president biden was here last week speaking on abortion rights. as you mentioned, vice president kamala harris will be here today to do exactly the same. we had a chance to talk to a physician. she works here in this clinic behind me. she provides not just abortion care but elsewhere she also provides care for high risk pregnancy patients. we had a chance to sit down with her. take a listen. >> so do you feel like abortion rights are political? >> abortion right is a health care right. it should not be political. it has nothing to do with politics. abortion is health care. >> reporter: so chris, we chose to be in jacksonville for a reason. it's close to the state border and this is a city where the abortion clinics have historically seen, at least in the last year or so, about a

third of their patients came from other states with far stricter bans, near total bans, if not a full ban. georgia, louisiana, mississippi, are three of the most common states i've heard abortion seekers coming from. now those same abortion seekers are being sent to other states, most commonly north carolina or virginia. now i spoke to a co-sponsor of the six-week ban, and he says the days of what he calls abortion tourism are over, and he pointed out that the law here, the six-week abortion law does have exceptions for things like rape, incest, fetal abnormalities but we have to remember when we look at the geography of the map, this impact really extends far beyond florida. it extends across the region, and of course as we know, the fight over reproductive rights is a nationwide battle. chris. >> marissa, thank you for your great reporting that you've been doing there. appreciate it. so ashley, your paper reports that more than 80,000 women get an abortion in florida in a typical year accounting for about one out of every 12 abortions nationwide.

talk about the impact this one state will have on women not only in florida, obviously, but listening to marissa and reading the reporting of your paper, women all across the southeast. >> that's right. i mean, each state that is now -- roe is overturned making its own decisions raises a sort of different issue in the national discussion and most of these issues politically are not particularly good for republicans. so in florida we're now talking about a number of women being unable to get an abortion at a point where they don't know they're pregnant, right? and when you talk to women, even republicans, independents who are going to decide this election, a lot of them say that feels incredibly draconian. you have other states where the discussion is now depending on the laws, about women who are unable to get an abortion not because they don't want the baby. sometimes because they

desperately do want the baby, but it's a risk to their health. so women who are enduring horrific health consequences because they can't get an abortion. that, again, politically in states like florida and elsewhere is not a discussion that republicans want to be having, and it's worth noting that the biden campaign in a memo said that in part because of what we're seeing in florida, they think florida is now, quote, unquote, winnable. florida is a state that had largely been written off the political map. trump won it twice. governor desantis for governor won it by huge margins. you know, it's also worth saying that even when democrats would privately tell you they didn't think they could win in florida, they still sort of publicly said we're going to play there. we want to make republicans spend money. this gives them one more tool in their arsenal to either really believe that florida is in play or at least force republicans to really fight them there. >> jim, you don't have to look far to see what the results of the overturning of roe v. wade have been.

for example, your folks from "axios" report that in charlotte -- and again, a lot of the folks from places in the southeast who don't have access to abortion go to north carolina -- that clinics in north carolina are running short on time, space, and staff. that's "axios'" reporting. so when donald trump says -- and this was his quote -- that this has taken tremendous pressure off of everybody, who or what is he trying to message? because no onely looking at it can say that. >> i think he's talking about himself. he's trying to take pressure off himself from a political perspective, and listen, it's a very political topic. there's no doubt that the president and the vice president feel very strongly about this as a policy measure, but if you look at the last off year election, if you look at some of these special elections, abortion has been a very powerful voter for democrats.

when you talk to the trump people, in some ways they boil this election down to men versus women. they believe they're going to lose a chunk of women who might have voted for them because of the abortion topic. that's why they play up crime and kind of masculinity in a lot of the rhetoric he uses because they're seeing some movement of min, and hispanic men away from biden. so i think trump -- i've talked to him over the years, i don't think this is a topic he particularly wants to deal with or even thinks much about, but he just wants to kick it down to the states. the problem is kind of this segment you're having here, when you kick it down to the states and you start to get down to a six-week ban, then suddenly there probably is a political reality to what ashley is saying, maybe a state like florida that probably isn't that much in play or wasn't that much in play suddenly could be if you have a segment of voters who are so fired up about a topic because it's personal to them that they then vote. we don't know that will happen, but it's a very plausible theory. >> this is what the republican

state representative who proposed that six-week abortion ban had to say in defense of it. >> florida is a pro-life state. we're a conservative state. we've always been moving in a pro-life direction. we should not be -- we should not be allowing abortions, and we certainly shouldn't be providing abortion tourism for other states in the south. >> i think the change and i'm curious your perspective on this -- there is no doubt that florida that used to be up for grabs has shifted even in registration to republican. being republican doesn't always align with being necessarily conservative or being against abortion rights, even if you are personally opposed to abortion, so to what extent is that true but problematic really for donald trump? >> again, this isn't at its essence a political topic. it is -- >> could joe biden make a real play for florida?

>> maybe, but even in the other states, if i were a republican or a democrat, listen, election sadly most of our votes don't matter that much unless you're in seven states, and in those seven states if you look at the polls, if you look at the voting history in recent elections, in all likelihood they're going to be determined by maybe 100,000 votes. last election you moved 40,000 votes in three states, trump wins. election before, you move 78,000 votes and trump loses. it is going to be a narrow vote. when you find an issue that motivates people because it is a personal issue, it really could prove decisive. does that expand the map, which is fundamentally the question you're asking, florida or ohio or some place that wasn't in play, could it be in play, possibly but florida's become very conservative and in a very fast way moved towards the republican column. >> let's move to arizona, what can we expect to happen with that 1864 abortion ban? >> reporter: yeah, chris, democrats believe they have

enough votes including two republicans who will allow this repeal to go through, but keep in mind, even if they repeal, they vote to repeal in the senate and the governor signs it as expected, they already approved it in the house, it will still take 90 days after the legislative session ends before this repeal could be in effect. we know that last year they were in session all the way up through july 31st. that gives you an indication here. i've stepped inside already and right now they are in session. the public gallery is filled with opponents and supporters who were standing at one point inside that gallery as they wait for their senators to make a decision on this 1864 law that has been very controversial, and most people in the state of arizona overwhelmingly have said they want at least some access to abortions whether it's for 15 weeks or at least allows for rape and incest. so we'll be watching, we're going to step inside, they

believe they can pass this, but also one democratic senator told me that she's cautiously optimistic because there could be stall tactics, which they have seen in prior weeks that have happened, so they hope that they can push this vote through. we are told that that could come down within the next couple of hours, and it would be huge. there's no indication that governor katie hobbs is willing to sign it today. the house speaker, it's his job to actually deliver that bill to her so that could also play -- politics could also play in that next move to get this to the governor's desk. >> a very consequential afternoon ahead, thank you, dana griffin, ashley parker, jim vandehie. congrats on the book. up next, the first thing on the agenda when trump's hush money trial reconvenes in less than 24 hours. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. mizable n chain, easy-to-use tools and paper trading to help sharpen your skills,

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we now know that even before testimony resumes tomorrow at donald trump's hush money case, judge juan merchan will hold another gag order hearing on the heels of that $9,000 contempt fine just yesterday. warned that he could impose, quote, an incars toir punishment, meaning jail, on trump if other violations are made. merchan is considering the argument that trump made four more possible violations pointing to these comments. >>

no, he's been very nice. david's been very nice, a nice guy. >> michael cohen was a convicted liar. he was a lawyer for many people, not just me, and he got in trouble because of things outside of what he did for me. >> that jury was picked so fast. 95% democrats. >> when are they going to look at all the lies that cohen did in the last trial. he got caught lying in the last trial. he puts in an invoice or whatever, a bill, and they pay to go to legal expense. i got indicted for that. >> i want to bring in nbc's vaughn hillyard and msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin who has been watching all of this unfold inside the overflow room at the courthouse. as you listen to that, tell us what is likely from judge juan merchan. i mean, look, people said $9,000 is like $0.90 to you and me. nevertheless, he dangled the possibility of jail. what's going to happen, though, tomorrow? >> well, remember, last night's

order was issued after trump made all of the statements you just showed on april 22nd or after. you can't say that it gives him fair warning with respect to the four statements that are at issue for tomorrow's hearing. so -- >> meaning fair warning that he could go to jail. >> correct. and so i don't think that jail is on the menu for tomorrow. i think it's really more of a third time's a charm/three strikes and you're out sort of warning. the other thing that i want to underscore is that juan merchan makes a point in a gag order of reminding people reading it that his hands are tied. the new york criminal contempt statute gives him two options, a thousand dollars per violation at a maximum or up to 30 days in jail. there is no in between, and there's a whole paragraph in his gag order where he says it would be preferable if i could impose a harsher penalty because it

would matter to him. it's not lost on him that a thousand dollars is nothing to donald trump and, yet, short of jail time, he knows there won't be any real meaningful consequences. so let's see what happens if there is a sort of fourth tranche of alleged violations. >> what are you hearing, vaughn, from inside trump world about this possibility whether it's tomorrow or at some future time, assuming he continues to violate the gag order. are they worried? is he worried? >> i was just showing some speech excerpts for his first campaign stop in about 90 minutes from now. there's not a single mention of the trial. those are just the excerpts, of course, donald trump should be expected to bring it up. it's at the forefront of his mind. >> every once in a while he veers off script. >> this is going to be his first campaign rally since the beginning of this trial here. there's a lot of i'm sure pent up energy and thoughts that he has. at the same time, when he does those remarks, it's not like he's coming out there and completely violaing the gag order with a giant middle finger

saying i'm doing it regardless of what you're saying here. we know from donald trump here the fact is just last fall he was fined for repeatedly attacking the principal law clerk to judge engoron despite having the gag order against him. he's now been fined in this situation here as well. the question is does donald trump begin to actually fear potential consequences as lisa just outlined, a potential third strike type of situation. >> it's part of covering a trial that you're trying to read the tea leaves. we're also trying to read the political tea leaves. i thought it was interesting for the first time yesterday donald trump had an entourage that included his son eric, but also ken paxton. he's the texas attorney general. he's had some controversies previously. let's call them that. could this be -- it's only one, but could this be the start of i'm going to show up for donald trump. i will be there sitting in the gallery for him. if it turns out that i'm being considered for vice president or for a job in the administration,

so be it. >> he was all but alone for the first few weeks of his trial. there were no family members, there were no allies. i was wondering along the way were we going to see a doug ber gam or a tim scott, members of congress, the marjorie taylor greenes, they were tied up with obligations on capitol hill the last two weeks. we didn't see any of them there. that's why yesterday ken paxton but also david mcintosh who was the president of the club for growth, he and donald trump had an icy relationship over the course of the last two years. club for growth was actively looking for an alternative to donald trump. they had hosted a donor retreat to go and try to prop up some of those folks like tim scott and doug ber gam and other candidates. this could be an opportunity for republicans including those that had previous icy relationships with him to come to his defense where he is at the courtroom for anywhere from eight hours a day. >> keith davidson going to be back on stand tomorrow. he was the lawyer who brokered the deal f comment that might

have felt a little bit like deja vu to the jury, and i want to talk about that. about the hush money payment to stormy daniels, he said, quote, michael cohen didn't have the authority to actually spend money. my understanding was that mr. trump was the beneficiary of this contract. it was just last week that the ex-publisher of the "national enquirer" david pecker was on the stand and told the jury basically the same thing. he didn't think that michael cohen had any authorization to buy or acquire or spend any moneys without mr. trump's approval. two witnesses, practically the same answer. if you're the defense, what do you do with that? >> there are a couple of ways you can go. one way is to say cohen was freelancing. he was trying to impress the boss. he had no permission to do it. he certainly had no authorization to do it. and he cut the deal on his own without donald trump's knowledge or permission. but that doesn't seem to be the strategy that they're using, particularly if you look back at

their cross examination of david pecker. it looks like the strategy they're employing here, particularly given some of the other evidence that hasn't come into trial yet is not he didn't do it or it wasn't for his benefit, but so what? there's nothing wrong with that. and that's the sort of standard operating procedure line of cross examination that we saw trump lawyer emil bove take david pecker through. you can tell that based on where he's sitting at the defense table. i'm going to look forward to seeing how they thread that needle tomorrow. >> lisa rubin, vaughn hillyard, also mr. and mrs. superman because both of you have been just, i don't know, no sleep, but i appreciate both of you very much. vaughn hillyard, lisa rubin. we are following breaking news out of wisconsin, just getting this in. according to the mount horab area school district a middle school is on lockdown, there was an active shooter stopped outside of the school building there. but one mother described to our local affiliate the very intense

moment when her children inside the school contacted her to talk about what was going on. >> my son marvin, he goes to the middle school, it was around like 11:00 where he called me crying saying they hear multiple shots and him and his friends took off running, and then my other son called me who goes to the high school, he left with his friends because they were evacuated fast. but one of my daughters are still inside of the middle school as we speak. but all we know is that there were some kids -- >> it's hard. >> yeah, it is. >> to get a call when you're at work from your babies crying saying that there's a shooting going on and we're scared, and you're 30 minutes away from them. >> i want to bring in nbc's emilie ikeda. what more do we know? >> you can imagine heart stopping, heart wrenching conversations between parents

and their kids like that happening 100 times over and then some for so many people who were in the area of this active shooter. we got our first update from the school district. it was posted around 12:30 eastern time. they reported that there had been an active shooter on the ground in the vicinity of the middle school of that district, but they had actually not been able to breach or make entryway into the building. they said that the individual, the accused active shooter was neutralized, and they also -- here's a really important headline here, they say that there have been no reports of injuries aside from the assailant. police and first responders had been surveying the middle school in the past hour or so looking to see if anyone else could be tied to this. they do not believe there is anyone else involved in the situation. the school district, all of the buildings, the 2,500 students that attend this district from pre-k up through high school had been on hard lockdown. they are now beginning to

evacuate some of the students at some of the buildings, but the middle school students still, as you heard from the mother there, remain inside. they're slowly starting a systematic process where they're allowing some of the kids to go to the bathroom within the building as this is very much a developing situation. there was an alert sent out from dade county sheriff's office to people, to phones in the area that had said that the active shooter was armed with a rifle and had urged people to stay inside, but of course a developing situation as we continue to wait, more details from the school district and first responders here. >> emilie ikeda, we thank you for that on the breaking news. we also got breaking news from columbia university right now, all remaining class meetings, review sessions, office hours and final exams on the morningside heights campus will now be held remotely. that campus is where the bulk of the protests have been held in recent days and where we saw more than 100 arrests overnight. other schools including columbia's law school have

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just moments from now, harvey weinstein is expected to appear in a manhattan court for the first time since his 2020 rape conviction was overturned. that decision sent shock waves through the community of weinstein's accusers, many of who testified in the case. here to talk about it is ”the new york times” editor at large jessica bennett. she wrote a "new york times" op-ed titled harvey weinstein and the limits of she said she said she said. it's so good to have you here. let me start with sort of the news that precipitated this is that weinstein, though he's not going to be released because of this, gets another shot, right? walk us through why such a major hard fought conviction was dismissed? >> yeah, so i think a lot of us

covering this case and certainly survivors always knew that this was a possibility, this case could be overturned on appeal. but at a certain point people kind of stopped holding their breath, and so when this came through last week, i found myself pretty shocked even though i followed this very closely. and the ruling, to be clear, has to do with the new york state conviction. he has also been convicted in california of an additional 16 years. so it's not that weinstein is going to be sprung from jail. but what the high court ruled is the judge in this case in new york had erred in allowing these witnesses who were there to testify, trying to show a history of manipulation, but they were not associated with the charges at hand, and they ruled that was not allowed and the judge erred in allowing it, and didn't allow weinstein a fair trial. he's, i believe, in court at this moment. maybe the case hasn't begun.

he's there where they are going to vacate this conviction. >> you argue that the fact that these women bravely, weinstein's accusers, bravely came out and talked about what had happened to them, shifted public perceptions of sexual assault. i wonder if you think or if conversations you're having with some of these women, they view this as a setback for how we view these cases, how victims will be treated. i can only imagine this is retraumatizing many of these women. >> yeah, i mean, look, this was the -- or one of the most symbolic cases of the me too movement, and so i think in a lot of ways weinstein really felt like progress. the conviction of harvey weinstein felt like big progress. and one of the things that i think those of us on the outside of the legal system don't necessarily understand is that the legal system is very far apart from the way we cultural view these cases.

there's a really interesting juxtaposition where the more voices that were coming forward, the more voices that were coming to proclaim me too to corroborate a story and to support it in the cultural mindset became a really believable case. that's what believability began to look like, with the preponderance of voices. in the legal system, it's entirely different. you're not allowed in most cases to bring in witnesses or victims that do not have to do with the charges at hand. >> it is such a thought provoking and smart op-ed. i recommend it to people, they can find at nytimes.com, where i go about 500 times a day. jessica bennett, thank you for coming on the program. much appreciated. moments from now we're going to get a huge decision from the fed connected to inflation. will it bring relief to people who want to buy a home? first, you can watch the best parts of our show anytime

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