its lawful orders and that if necessary and appropriate under the circumstances it will impose an incoursetory punishment. so there you have it. how does this impact now the remaining seconds here, danny, the rest of the trial going forward? you expect to see donald trump may change his behavior? >> he's going to have to. it really depends on looking into the mind of trump and saying do i want to make this a symbolic issue and push the point of incarceration. i think he's going to tone it down knowing they have begun the process and the process ends with jail cell. >> we will see. does he want a shot of himself in jail to raise money? that's always a possibility. msnbc legal analyst danny cevallos, danny, thank you so much. and we'll now turn over the coverage to ana cabrera. right now on "ana cabrera reports," we're following two

big breaking news stories this morning. donald trump's hush money trial resuming moments ago, and the judge just issued a ruling on gag order violations. finding trump in contempt. we'll have the latest from the courthouse. we're also tracking breaking news from columbia university, protesters storming and occupying a campus building overnight. the new warning from the school this morning. good morning. it is 10:00 eastern. i'm ana cabrera reporting from new york. we begin with our breaking news at the courthouse in lower manhattan, where the second week of witness testimony just resumed in donald trump's hush money trial. and the judge starting the day with a new decision on trump's gag order violations, ruling just moments ago that trump did in fact violate the gag order

nine times. and fining him $1,000 for each of the violations. let's bring in nbc news correspondent vaughn hillyard, former prosecutor charles coleman, and attorney and loyola law school professor jessica levinson. vaughn, let's start with the gag order. bring us all the details. >> reporter: the district attorney's office, ana, brought forward ten different allegations of social media posts made by donald trump over the course of two weeks that they alleged violated the gag order against him that barred him from attacking potential witnesses as it pertained to these criminal proceedings as well as jurors or potential jurors. and of those ten allegations brought forward by the district attorney, nine of them were found by judge merchan to have violated the gag order placed on donald trump. in his several page order, judge merchan writes that donald trump willfully violated the orders, not only attacking potential witnesses, stormy daniels and michael cohen, but also by discussing the jury and the

implication that to a certain extent there could have been individuals who were trying to make their way on to this jury in an effort to taint them. liberal activists that they were referred to. the judge determined that reposts by donald trump, some of those violations were in fact statements made by donald trump. and that he was not cloaked with some protection because he was simply reposting them, but by doing that act, he therefore was affirming the content of those very posts. and now this is notable. number one, 9:30 a.m. eastern time, this upcoming thursday, there is another hearing about potential other violations that the d.a.'s office alleges donald trump has violated. and as you noted, each fine was just $1,000 for each of the violations. and judge merchan in his order made it clear the court in the state of new york does not have the discretion to increase that fine amount and noting that

sometimes the individual, who is found to be held in contempt, perhaps a $1,000 fine does not have that much consequence to that individual. donald trump namely one of those individuals. and that is where in the last line of his order, he very explicitly writes here, quote, because this court is not cloaked with such discretion, it must therefore consider whether in some instances jail may be a necessary punishment, sending an early signal that he is at least considering if donald trump were to continue willfully violating this gag order, that he would consider jail time for donald trump as this courtroom and its jury and the prosecution and the defense team moves forward and proceeds their way through this trial. >> jessica, just getting your initial reaction to this ruling. >> my initial reaction is that this is a judge who is serious about imposing gag orders and violating gag orders. and i think this is frankly

exactly right. if you look at those social media posts, if you look at the reposts and if you compare those to what was prohibited under the gag order, i think it makes all the sense in the world that the judge would say there is a violation here. i think we have seen from the very beginning that this is a judge who is serious about controlling his courtroom, we saw that in terms of the pace of jury selection, we have seen that again with respect to the imposition of the gag orders, and, you know, with respect to the comment by the judge that sometimes that monetary penalty isn't enough to get somebody's attention, so there is always jail time, on the one hand, that does seem big and significant, on the other hand, i will say, those are the only two options for a gag order, right? it is pay monetary penalties and take the thing down or take the thing back if you can, and it is just, i think, really a reminder that jail time is always a possibility here. >> and, charles, we should note there were ten initial allegations of violations.

the judge clearly looked at each one individually, decided one of those didn't amount to a violation of the gag order, the nine others did. he took a week to bring this ruling. so, he appears to have been very, very calculated and thoughtful about what he wanted to hand down here. he instructed trump to remove the post that he found in violation by 2:00 today. can't imagine this is going over very well with the former president. >> no, ana, but at the same time, i really feel like for him and his defense counsel this should not be a surprise. if you're looking at how the gag order hearing went last week, it did not go well for them and they would have had to expect that on some level they would want to be found in contempt. i do think that what judge merchan did in this order by laying out a path going forward and hinting at the notion of incarceration for donald trump, it is a good thing, because it doesn't necessarily mean that the next time that he violates the gag order should it happen that he's going directly to jail. but it does lay out the

foundation for that ultimately being something that judge merchan rules on and sends him to prison -- sends him to jail at least, should he continue to violate the orders. i think this was the right call. i think like i said, even though the former president may not necessarily be happy about it, i would imagine that his defense attorneys are not surprised at this order given how poorly the gag order hearing went last week. >> and so, danny, danny cevallos is joining us, criminal defense attorney, what do you think this means for the upcoming gag order hearing that is on thursday for these four additional pending gag order violations? >> well, it sets the bar. we were waiting for a decision on the first gag order. we had an idea where the judge would be in terms of even defining what would be a violation of the gag order for the second gag order hearing. just to give you an example, i wondered whether the judge would conclude that reposting something as opposed to just posting something would constitute a violation of the gag order. we have now learned that according to the order, a repost can violate the gag order.

it is interesting, because people repost things all the time, they don't necessarily mean they're endorsing it. but, context is everything, and you can probably conclude that when donald trump reposts something favorable about himself, then he is speaking and endorsing that. and then in addition, you have something that really wasn't reposting when he reposted with his own words the jesse waters quote which he changed, and when you do that, it gets interesting because this feels more like a copy right argument we're making, did he change it, did he add to it, did he put his own spin on it, but these are all going to govern how the judge looks. it becomes essentially the law of the case next week and for the weeks after because i don't know who among us doesn't think that next week will be the final gag order hearing. i'm sure these will be on a rolling, ongoing basis. it seems like the judge just planned on it once a week to deal with gag order violations. but we know now this sets a floor. we know where the judge's mind is in defining what is and is not a violation. >> and now he also has for the record this warning of potential

incarceration, should trump continue to violate the gag order. i see your skepticism there, danny. but let's push forward. a witness has returned to the stand. we're hearing from former banker gary farro. what are we learning, vaughn? >> reporter: gary farro is in for his second day of testimony, ana. he only testified for about an hour on friday. this is where the links of the story begin to build out. you have the likes of david pecker, who laid out the foundation of what this alleged scheme looked like. you bring in the executive assistant to donald trump, the trump organization, rhona graff, who had the context with stormy daniels and karen mcdougal and now gary farro who is outlining emails in a timeline of what took place on october 26, 2016, when he, for michael cohen, set up two different bank accounts. the former banker for michael cohen at first republic.

and he is articulating the extent to which there is urgency on michael cohen's part to open up these two accounts. there is the one account particularly in october 26 in which he drew off of michael cohen's own line of credit through his home equity in order to put $131,000 into this new bank account through first republic. at that point in time, the $131,000 was then transferred from michael cohen, from that new account, to an attorney who is representing stormy daniels. it had been indicated, the allegation is, stormy daniels, just two weeks out from the election, was prepared to take her story elsewhere, for alleged affair with donald trump. but then as october began to close, with that message communicated to michael cohen, he turned up the intensity of which he sought to make sure that she was effectively paid, knowing that the "national enquirer" was not going to pay her. and that's when he drew off his

own home equity line of credit to put money into this new account set up by gary farro and that money was travered on october 26th. they are key individuals who can testify and also corroborate and authenticate emails and other evidence that are key to showing that just the extent to which michael cohen sought to do this and the importance and such a timely manner. >> so, jessica, they're talking shell companies, hidden payments. what role is farro serving for the prosecution in terms of the bigger picture of their case? >> so, i think as exactly as vaughn said that it is putting together really the scaffolding that is going to bring us to the prosecution hopes the ultimate conclusion that these business records were falsified in order to try and commit or conceal another crime, which is a campaign finance violation.

basically that the payments here were made, gary farro is going to testify to all the details, authenticate some of the transactions. he's an important part of the bricks that the prosecution is laying, to say, and these payments, they weren't just as a coincidence made right before the 2016 election. these payments and there was urgency to them, and michael cohen was really acting on behalf of trump as a candidate. they were made so that the public did not hear about stormy daniels' accusations. so, a witness like gary farro, again, he's important about the details of the transaction. there is no allegation as vaughn said that there was any sort of wrongdoing. and it is important because he's explaining to the jury that this was a transaction meant to affect the election and other witnesses will then come in and corroborate that. and so the jury will hear this

very consistent narrative the prosecution is hoping by the time that they -- that they close. >> so, charles, the thing is, though, farro can provide clarity certainly on the payments showing that there is this transaction between michael cohen and stormy daniels, but if paying hush money itself isn't a crime, why does this matter so much? >> well, it matters in the respect for the main reasons that jessica was talking about, you're showing you're doing this to conceal another crime in terms of furthering another crime. you have to talk about this chronologically so people understand the order of events and why it is being placed where it is. you're trying to conceal the fact that what -- this campaign finance violation that everyone is wondering from the point of the indictment, what is the actual crime here, that's the part that we're all really waiting to see take form on the

stand in terms of the prosecution's case. but you have to build it up. and you have to basically lay that foundation, which is what is happening now. it is not the most straightforward legal theory, not the easiest one to follow, i acknowledge that, which is why alvin bragg and his office has taken a lot of criticism from people objectively looking at this and saying, well, i don't necessarily know that a jury is going to be able to follow it, but to lay the foundation to get there, you have to put the hush money payments before the actual crime that you're looking to conceal or get around because that's ultimately why any of this actually matters. >> laura jarrett is reporting from the courthouse that jurors have monitors in front of them, they're following along. danny, how do you keep jurors engaged and attuned to the details of something that is rather in the weeds when talking about these financial transactions and the path of them. >> there has been a lot of talk about how all of these crime shows have created this image to jurors that they're going to be constantly entertained during a jury trial. and nothing can be further from the truth. particularly so in a white

collar type case, which is what this is. which can be document intensive. and, look, i've been on trials like this and going through reams of banking records as a lawyer makes you want to pass out. i can't imagine for jurors if they don't have experience going through documents like this or understanding why are transfers in the minutia of setting up corporations, it might be really difficult. so, the people have to be mindful of that. and move as quickly as they can. they don't want to bore jurors. the lesson of boring jurors, jurors take that and hold it against the prosecution. so, it is always a concern in a white collar case because of all the complexities. anytime you have a banker testifying, pretty good indicator it is complicated because this stuff that goes on, the last week it was reported that there were suspicious activity reports, things like that, those are really, really interesting things and they're things that customers don't always know about.

some of the stuff is going to be really interesting. i expect the defense to this is examine farro on the issue of, hey, where were your guys safeguards if this was such a red flag, what was the issue? but, look, it is always a challenge going back to jurors to keep them engaged. you always have to be mindful of that. you know who else is mindful of that, the judge. you have to give them breaks, make sure they have their lunch. it sounds silly. they start revaulting if you don't make sure they're well fed and cared for. >> something you said brought my attention to something we heard in the questioning this morning from prosecution to farro, and the prosecutor asked, would the bank's process for opening the account be different if mr. cohen indicated it was paying an adult film star, farro saying, yes, we could ask additional questions. that's a snippet from the testimony this morning from farro. let's go back out to vaughn, because we just got a statement from michael cohen, who, of course, has been the target of many of donald trump's attacks and these potential gag order violations that the judge just

ruled on. what is michael cohen saying? >> reporter: right, michael cohen's statement is short and brief, but he was the target of several of those violations that judge merchan just found that donald trump had violated the gag order on by posting specifically about michael cohen or articles about michael cohen. michael cohen's new statement is, quote, the imposed fine is irrelevant. judge merchan's decision elucidates that this behavior will not be tolerated and no one is above the law. again, judge merchan finding donald trump violated nine of the ten alleged violations that were brought forward by the district attorney's office so far. and even suggested the potential jail time could be a potential consequence if donald trump were continue to violate the gag order placed on him. >> everyone watching at home, stay with us. everybody else, stay close, we'll keep an eye on that manhattan courthouse throughout this hour. we'll have more in just minutes, including another critical hearing set for thursday on more

possible gag order violations after that judge's ruling today. and when we're back in 60 seconds, the chaos at columbia. student protesters occupying a historic campus building, what they're demanding from their university leaders. >> these repulsive scare tactics mean nothing compared to the deaths of over 34,000 palestinians. 34,000 palestinians gen? i don't have a problem with my memory." memory loss is, is not something that occurs overnight. i started noticing subtle lapses in memory. i want people to know that prevagen has worked for me. it's helped my memory. it's helped my cognitive qualities. give it a try. i want it to help you just like it has helped me. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. (vo) sail through the heart of historic cities and unforgettable scenery with viking. unpack once and get closer to iconic landmarks,

local life and cultural treasures. because when you experience europe on a viking longship, you'll spend less time getting there and more time being there. viking. exploring the world in comfort. we're back with the breaking news from columbia university this morning, where there is new chaos today after protesters stormed a campus building overnight, smashing windows, gaining entry to the school's historic hamilton hall, and then barricading themselves inside. weeks of antiwar protests reaching a flashpoint as administrators began suspending students, who refused to disband their encampment, the deadline was 2:00 yesterday. george solis joins us now from

columbia university and also with us, higar chemali. i understand they're trying to keep the media off campus now. what is happening right now? >> reporter: yeah, ana, it is a very tense situation that is unfolding here. all access to the campusrestricd 116th. students and faculty are trying to get in, they're not just letting anyone in, they're scanning each individual i.d., which is causing a backup here and a lot of frustration. i talked to some students here earlier who were just trying to get on campus to finish up what they need to ahead of the final day of classes, ahead of commencement, so obviously a very tense situation. all this unfolds as you mentioned overnight, some of the demonstrators breaking into historic hamilton hall, breaking windows, barring the doors and hanging banners. one of those banners visible from the outside of the street,

the other one on campus, the one we see says free palestine and is unfurled there. so, of course, a lot of heavy police presence. but the nypd at this point not going on campus, not showing any signs that they will ever go on campus. students that have barricaded themselves inside of hamilton hall really issuing a stern warning to the university saying they don't want to see any police activity or any soldier activity as some of the protests from history have shown including the vietnam protests where students barricaded themselves heresaying if any of that were to happen, the blood would be on their hands, so strong language there. tense situation here, the police are here, the students trying to get in, of course, the question in all of this, ana, is will commencement ever actually happen here at columbia or will it end up happening somewhere else? >> and, george, how many students are we talking about in terms of those who broke into hamilton hall and what is their endgame? what are they demanding?

>> reporter: so, give or take about 200 or so is our understanding of how many are currently within the building right now. not including the ones set up at the encampment, and the messaging here from the students right now has been that the university divest from israel, any business dealings or ties that would help israel at this point. they also said yesterday during a press conference, i don't believe that the university has been negotiating in good faith. the university very clear in their stance they have no plans to divest from israel, so those negotiations obviously very much at a stand still, and whether or not they come to an agreement ahead of commencement is anyone's guess, ana. >> we got a statement from the white house right now on this issue. and i'm quoting here, president biden has stood against repugnant antisemitic smears and violent rhetoric his entire life. he condemns the use of the term intefadeh and he has -- as he has the other tragic and dangerous hate speech displayed in recent days. president biden respects the right to free expression, but

protests must be peaceful and lawful, forcibly taking over buildings is not peaceful, it is wrong, and hate speech and hate symbols have no place in america. again, that statement coming from the white house spokesperson andrew bates. hagar, this is a big escalation, breaking into a building, barricaing themselves inside, making these threats about blood being spilled. what is your reaction? >> sure, well, first of all, i'm really happy to hear about president biden's statement, because this -- the white house is the bully pulpit of the world and they're the ones who should be telling people that by the way, this protest is not peaceful anymore, you've crossed the line into violent behavior and by the way, the word intefadeh means violence. i can't tell you how many students told me they don't believe that it does, it means resistance. and perhaps they didn't witness the first and second intefadehs like we did, that were not only calls for violence, but violence against israeli people and jews,

not against the israeli state. that's what they're saying when they mean that. i can tell you myself, as a professor, i've been very disappointed, very dismayed in what i see in the protests for a few reasons. on the one hand, you want students to express their ideas and their thoughts and to explore and learn and discuss and debate. and i did see after the arrests happened, i was on campus, i looked at the protests, i did see them in negotiations with the administration, the administration has kept us up to date around the clock. they have absolutely been negotiating in good faith. with protesters whose demands frankly don't really make a lot of sense. and the reason for that is that divestment, what they're asking for is that the school's endowment not be invested in businesses that have ties to israel. so you're talking companies like google or microsoft or lockheed martin and mutual funds and it is not easy and not a fair request. this behavior today is what extortionists do.

you don't take over a building, hold the campus hostage and say you bend to our demands or else. that's just not how students are supposed to behave. that's not how protests are supposed to work. >> and you brought up the word intefadeh, we just saw it in president biden's statements and i should note it has come up because those inside the build having been flying different flags on that building overnight, including one that read that word loud and clear, intefadeh. if you are a jewish student, who is already feeling threatened on that campus, hagar, how do you interpret that message? >> it is a call for violence against jews. i've been -- for weeks now i've been saying how horrified i've been at the chants because the chants have been for weeks now calling for intefadeh very laud loudly and clearly. i've seen that zionists aren't allowed at certain social

events. it is horrifying. if you're a jewish student, you're going to feel targeted, you're going to feel unsafe, you're going to feel like this is not a campus that is welcoming or safe to you. and the thing that i really want to point out here, again, it is not -- i'm not trying to say students shouldn't be allowed to protest or express their ideas. they should. it is amazing to see young people moved by something to horrific happening overseas. i would like to see it happen for sudan and congo and the list could go on. when you talk about calls for intefadeh, your message about divestment allegedly or an end to the war is not credible anymore. what you show is that you are in fact calling for violence. you're calling for intefadeh and it does nothing but undermine the actual palestinian cause. >> quickly, if you will, what should the university do about this? what needs to happen? >> well, given that they negotiated genuinely in good faith in the last ten days, since the last round of arrests,

i think the students have to be forcibly removed from hamilton hall. exams have to go forward. students have to study. i don't know how, but my hope is that it could be done with columbia security and not the police. the administration has been trying to avoid bringing the police back. >> keep us posted as to what is happening there and we will keep an eye on columbia university, that intensifying situation between protesters and university leaders. also after the break, we'll turn back to the manhattan courthouse where witness testimony is under way this morning in donald trump's hush money trial. we'll have the latest line of questioning from the prosecution next. at helps treat and prevent, all in one. to those with migraine, i see you. for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults. don't take if allergic to nurtec odt. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. it's time we all shine.

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we're back, still monitoring what is happening right now inside a manhattan courthouse. witness gary farro is now facing cross examination by donald trump's legal team that started moments ago. back with us is msnbc news correspondent vaughn hillyard,

former prosecutor charles coleman, loyola law school professor jessica levinson and criminal defense attorney danny cevallos. vaughn, what is happening on the stand right now with gary farro? >> reporter: gary farro is working through the timeline in which he was able to effectively set up this bank account for an llc for michael cohen on october 26, 2016, at a moment that stormy daniels attorney was allegely threatening to take her story elsewhere. that's what led michael cohen to urgently to call, according to farro, his first republic bank, which he was work for at the time, in order to set up this account and then begin to even go as far as to transfer $131,000 from his own home equity line of credit, michael cohen's own home equity line of credit and transfer that money into this llc, essentially this shell company. that was october 26. on that very afternoon is when

that transfer took place. gary farro is now testifying and corroborating email evidence of this by that very next morning by 10:30 a.m. eastern time on october 27 that an initiation of a wire transfer had begun and that wire transfer was that very $131,000 going to the attorney, keith davidson, who was representing stormy daniels. so what the district attorney's office is currently doing for this jury is showing the urgency in which michael cohen and the bank were moving to get this money to him. there is a direct quote from michael farro in which he says he was a challenging client because of his desire to get things done so quickly and in numerous emails that are being brought before this jury, bank -- members of that bank including farro speak regularly about the need to urgently complete not only the transfer and setting up of this account, the transferring of the money and the initiation of this wire transfer, all of this is being

laid out before the jury right now. >> so, danny, this, you know, picture that the defense attorney is trying to paint with farro on the stand of michael cohen being a challenging client and the urgency in which he was always making his requests with the bank, he said 90% of the time it was an urgent matter, yes. what do you think the defense attorney is trying to do here? >> establish that michael cohen does these kinds of things impulsively in the moment. and i expect what they're going to develop on cross examination is the glaring absence of involvement of donald trump. it is really their best avenue with gary farro. they might also get into some version of, hey, you were involved in this, and there were red flags, your hands aren't entirely clean either, are they, mr. farro? you may see some of that. i don't know what that furthers for the defense. this was a transaction that shouldn't have been conducted and the bank didn't stop it, it didn't change whether or not donald trump ordered it. that's what is being left out of this. gary farro gives a lot of

information about the transaction, about how this money was wired, it is the nuts and bolts, and probably the idea that this was probably not -- this is a somewhat suspicious transaction, but ultimately donald trump is glaringly absent and i think that is what you're going to see on cross examination. them attempting to frame this as gary and michael cohen, and nobody else. >> okay, so, obviously, gary farro is a small slice of the pie or small piece of broader pudz puzzle when it comes to this. david pecker, the former publisher of "national enquirer" told jurors on friday about a conference call that he had with two of donald trump's former top white house aides, sarah sanders and hope hicks, a call he says trump arranged. so, what do we know about the likelihood that either one of those aides could be called to the stand and the value they

could bring? >> i think everybody is watching to see whether hope hicks takes the stand. if so, when, and what do we get from her testimony. i think everybody has been paying close attention to that, for the reason you outlined. david pecker's testimony laid out the ground work and the framework for how everything went down and hope hicks is someone who really has the glue that can connect all of these pieces together, and in such a way that the prosecution's case becomes much tighter than it is. and so there is going to be a lot of attention paid to her testimony, should she take the stand and when she takes the stand and then also how the defense, if they are at all, able to discredit her on cross examination. that's also going to be key moving forward. so, you're talking about two witnesses who are going to be able to add much more substance and much more context to the frame that david pecker put together when he was on the stand as the prosecution's first witness. pecker comes on the stand, his

testimony gives you this framework that you understand big picture-wise and all the witnesses that you've seen from the prosecution since that point have been putting more and more context to individual pieces of the overall scheme that pecker described. and the same is true for hope hicks and that's why her testimony is going to be so important for the prosecution. >> jessica, have you seen trump's lawyers do any kind of preemptive damage control to try to weaken testimony from potential hope hicks appearance? >> not as of yet. i think danny zeroed in on what the defense is going to try and do over and over again, which is to say, okay, well, this thing happened, this transaction happened, and i know you mentioned michael cohen and i know you mentioned stormy daniels or her attorney at the time, keith davidson. but there is a name we haven't mentioned, we haven't talked about donald trump. so, when it comes to hope hicks, i think there will, of course, be questions about were you actually in the room, are you sure that was meant, there could be questions about her

credibility. the name of the game over and over again for the defense will be to say, this actually, all of these things that occurred, try and draw a line and you can't between the former president and any alleged wrongdoing. now, i think the prosecution has plenty of responses to that. but i think that really is the defense's best strategy here, which is to try again over and over to remove the former president from the center of the action. that's frankly why i think david pecker's testimony was so damaging for the defense, because he did situate not only he explained what the plan was, but he situated donald trump really toward the epicenter of that plan. >> and, charles, we're learning that michael cohen was seen walking into his attorney's office a short time ago, we're at the cross examination point on this latest witness, gary farro. would it make sense to put michael cohen on the stand next or in the earlier stages of this trial? >> well, sooner than later, yes.

i do expect you're going to hear from michael cohen for a number of different reasons. danny alluded to the notion you got to keep the jury entertained and if there is one thing na michael cohen can do is entertain. he loves the spotlight. as a witness, he has substantive value and stylistic value for the prosecution in as much as right now the conversations about the transactions, the bank records, this bank account, the first republic, not the most scintillating testimony, but michael cohen is someone who can potentially serve as a bridge for the prosecution and inject a little bit of life in terms of their presentation in front of the jury. it would not be a terrible idea to have him come on the stand and get him out of the way in terms of his testimony, not to mention we know that his cross examination is going to be excruciating with respect to the defense's attacks on his credibility. getting through that in such a way that it doesn't leave a lasting impression in front of the jury from being one of the last witnesses that you hear from before they conclude their case in chief is something that the prosecution has to be

mindful of. you don't want to have a witness like michael cohen end the day when you're presenting your case, so if they can mix him up with some of the witnesses that may not necessarily be as strong or among them and then end with some stronger witnesses, that might be a feather in their cap. >> vaughn, you have new color from the courtroom in this cross examination of gary farro? >> reporter: right. the district attorney's office has wrapped up their questioning of gary farro and now it is todd blanche who is asking on cross examination very specific questions of farro here. and it is not only insinuating that he had lax business practices as a banker for first republic and setting up these accounts, but also directly hitting at the heart of whether he knew that donald trump was at all involved in any of the setting up of the llcs, the transfer of the home equity line of credit from michael cohen to this llc. or the wire transfer.

very specifically, todd blanche asks, did he ever mention donald trump? farro responds, correct, no, we can only see the clients that we do business with. he goes on then to ask him, it is standard operating practice, right, to ask whether you're acting as an agent for anyone. and mr. cohen answered no to that, right? farro responded, correct. this is where -- todd blanche in defense of donald trump, is hitting at the heart that this was michael cohen, acting independently and that donald trump had no direct contact and that gary farro was not aware from first republic's standpoint of donald trump directing any of these payments or that wire transfer to stormy daniels' attorney. >> you called it. that's what you expected that they were going to do and what you were sensing in the initial questioning. and it comes as there is some new reporting about donald trump not being happy with his defense attorney, who is doing the questioning right now.

and that is todd blanche. and "the new york times" reporting that he's not been following instructions closely, this is according to trump, and that he's been insufficiently aggressive, that trump wants him to attack witnesses, attack what the former president sees as a hostile jury pool, attack the judge, juan merchan, trump has also wondered aloud why his lawyers cost so much. your reaction to that. could we see the lawyers for donald trump be changed? >> could they withdraw? well, probably not at this stage. can trump fire them? yeah. a client can generally hire and fire any attorneys he wants. although judge merchan, if he perceives that as a ploy to delay the trial, that would be a problem. but generally speaking, the client can hire and fire his lawyers. you're not stuck with them unless they're court appointed and you can usually fire them as well. look, i think at this point, years in, if you decide to sign

a retainer agreement with donald trump, you know this is part of the deal. it happens a lot that clients might think, hey, if they don't understand the proceedings, they just understand fighting and want the attorney, hey, i want you to fight for me more out there, i don't even know what that would mean, but i want more fighting. it is understood with clients who maybe don't understand the system very well, but donald trump should be a little more sophisticated and understand that just fighting the entire time is not what defense attorneys do. sometimes, for example, stipulating to some pieces of evidence can be beneficial to the client instead of fighting, fighting, fighting. and i understand reportedly they're refusing to stipulate the evidence you would normally agree, that's coming in. when you do that, then the prosecution has to spend more time introducing that evidence and it gets burned into the mind of the jury for longer. so, going along isn't capitulating, it isn't giving up as defense counsel. you can strategically concede certain ground and fight on other ground and still effectively represent your

client. >> all right, everybody, stay with us. we'll keep bringing you updates from that manhattan courthouse where week two of testimony in donald trump's hush money trial is kicking into high gear. first, we'll turn back to the other big story happening this morning, student protesters taking over this building on columbia's campus as pro-palestinian protests intensifying nationwide. what's next as tensions escalate. nationwide. what's next as tensions escalate breathing claritin clear is like... is he? claritin clear? yeah. fast relief of your worst allergy symptoms, like nasal congestion. live claritin clear®

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we're continuing to monitor the breaking news at university campuses across the country this morning. we're really going to zero in here at columbia university where student protesters are now occupying a campus building amid a standoff with the school about disbanding a protest encampment there. and we just got some new information from the nypd. let's go back out to nbc's george solis at columbia university. what are police saying? >> reporter: yeah, ana, i want to flag some reporting from our

tom winter about all of this unfolding since those student protesters took over hamilton hall. we're learning now that the nypd says they received 911 calls from columbia university last night about what was going on here on campus. the nypd, and i think this is crucial, pairing up with columbia school safety and they determined there was no physical threats to any individuals and there were no lives in danger. this is very interesting because, again, at this point we learned the nypd has not been on campus and has shown no indication they will go unless columbia invites them in. to that end, it was determined there were no acts of criminal mischief curing in and around -- there were acts of criminal mischief that were occurring but columbia university did not want -- did not want the nypd to enter and make arrests or charge any individuals for that mischief, aka, the vandalism here. again, columbia standing firm that at this point they have no interest in inviting the nypd on to campus to take any action here. so, what is happening?

well, you do see the nypd presence outside of the gates here. you now have one point of entry for the students that are allowed in, but meanwhile, that standoff still continues inside of that campus building. >> and meanwhile, the university officials have asked students who are trying to prepare for their final exams and graduation and so forth to stay off campus as they handle this situation with this new building that has been occupied by protesters. thank you, george solis, for the latest. and just ahead, more from donald trump's historic hush money trial in new york. what we're learning from the trump team's cross examination of banker gary farro and how they're looking to undermine michael cohen's credibility. ing, but i want to live in my home where i'm comfortable and my friends are nearby. i can do it with the help of a barber, personal shopper and exercise buddy. someone who can help me live right at home.

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for healthier feeling skin. all these details add up to something greater. new dove men plant powered body wash. developments from inside the courthouse of trump's hush-money trial, and gary farro is still under cross-examination by todd blanche. vaughn hillyard is live with the latest. >> reporter: right now todd blanche is currently cross examining the banker that set up the llc account for michael cohen in late october of 2016, and effectively wire transferred the $130,000 payment to the attorney representing stormy

daniels. under this cross-examination, todd blanche is asking very specific questions about the relationship they perceived michael cohen to have with donald trump. number one, they never heard him talk about donald trump, and cohen said he was working as an actor not for everybody else. the defense team is trying to get at the fact that the bank did not take michael cohen too seriously as it extended to his relationship to the newly sworn-in president trump, and asking about the regulations that one client must attest to them being a politically exposed person if setting up an account, and michael cohen did not fit that description in their books, and they are making the case they did not make michael cohen

as somebody working with trump but working independently. >> let's get to this latest reporting. >> this is the -- the gary farro testimony is going along the way i expected it would. if you cross examine farro, and todd blanche, you can go after farro and say you were sloppy and should have seen red flags, and i don't know what that advances for the defense. in a way farro is good for the people, but there are pluses for the defense as well, and i wonder, you know, looking back, they may have brought this out. the people should have probably focused on this. if they did -- i am not sure, they may have focussed on this in direct, donald trump was not seen there, and they don't need farro to establish if trump was there or not. there will be other witnesses for that. is the transaction from cohen to

davidson, it's there and undeniable, and they have proven that element of the case. whatever head way the defense makes on gary farro, and they will make the point that trump was not anywhere near the transaction as far as farro saw, but they will bring in other witnesses to tie in cohen and trump and trump's hands on this, and we will see other witnesses who may or may not have heard or seen something that would tie trump to this transaction. >> we are just getting word the testimony of gary farro wrapped up as far as his cross-examination, and it did seem like trump's lawyer was trying to use farro to paint cohen as a liar, somebody that deceived the bank and deceived others. clearly they are establishing him as more of a solo operator.

is that an effective strategy? >> it could be if the jury will buy it. what you are trying to do, to danny's earlier point, is put donald trump as far away from the transactions here as possible, and make it as if these people acted on trump's behalf or to his benefit but without his instruction. the strategy is you don't make your witnesses likeable and you don't make the prosecution witnesses likeable, and you make them seem sleazy, and i expect them to throw mud on stormy daniels and michael cohen, so therefore it's not necessarily fair or just to convict donald trump when everybody here sort of had bad motives or were involved in a way they should not have been. that's part of the defense's strategy. you will see that more and more, particularly when michael cohen takes the stand.

this is something not to be unexpected. the prosecution will try and distance donald trump and at the same time try and sully the names of the reputations of many of the prosecution's witnesses. >> gary farro is done. he's stepping down now. who is next, danny? >> that's unfair. it could be anyone -- >> look into the crystal ball for me. >> we may see karen mcdougal, and she could be a flashy witness but doesn't advance the ball, and she's not even necessary or is minimally necessary, and we have witnesses who are explosive and flashy and exciting and some are not that compelling in terms of proving the facts and the elements the prosecution needs. stormy daniels is an example of that. already gotten the farro testimony, and the transaction is in, and the jury believes it

is what it is or not, and you will have witnesses that put on a show, but the substantive witnesses, you might make an argument that a gary farro was more important to the people's case than karen mcdougal, but everybody wants to hear from her. why not? >> we have been told the court has moved into recess, and no word yet on who is coming next. same question to you, we have karen mcdougal, stormy daniels -- who will be next? >> i don't know if i am using stormy daniels yet, only because she's one of the bigger names left. you do have to have a witness to add flavor back to the prosecution's case to keep the jury engaged.

you don't want to lose them because you need them to be able to follow everything taking place. as of right now, the prosecution has not got to the point where donald trump has committed any crime. you have the jury engaged, and right now gary farro is not going to do it. i expect them to come back with somebody with a little flavor and interesting testimony. >> thank you. that's going to do it for us today. see you back here tomorrow, same time, same place as always. i am ana cabrera. josé diaz-balart picks up the coverage right after this. afte. of episodic migraine in adults. don't take if allergic to nurtec odt. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. it's time we all shine.

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