healthcare to after care. community schools can wrap so much around public schools. ...and through meaningful partnerships with families, they become centers of their communities. real solutions for kids and communities at aft.org thank you so much for letting us into your home during these extraordinary times. we're so grateful. "the beat" with katie fang starts right now. >> thanks so much. welcome to "the beat" and i'm

katie fang in for ari melber. another big day for donald trump's criminal collection trial, starting out with both sides butting heads. the prosecution asking the court for donald trump to be held in contempt of court, and donald trump's lawyers spinning those attacks as political. the judge frustrated, admonishing trump's attorney saying you're losing all credibility with this court, the judge adding, you've presented nothing. well, we'll have more on that later in the show. but first, the prosecution's first witness back on the stand, former "national enquirer" publisher david pecker, returning to detail to the jury his involvement in the multiple catch and kill plots to bury negative stories about donald trump. pecker detailing his decades

long relationship with trump, and his frequent communications with michael cohen. testifying that in that now infamous 2015 meeting, pecker agreed to publish only positive stories about trump, promising to be trump's eyes and ears. pecker going on to say how, at the time, he told the "national enquirer" leadership he wanted that agreement to be "as quiet as possible." because they were going to try to help the trump campaign. this is a big deal. the prosecution alleging a conspiracy to help trump's campaign in order to influence the outcome of the presidential election. setting out to prove that trump violated new york state election law. at one point, david pecker admitting that he bought a false story about trump fathering a child out of wedlock because of the potential embarrassment to

the campaign and mr. trump. the prosecution turned to the hush money payment to karen mcdougal, a model who says she had an affair with trump. pecker recalled during this time cohen instructed him to use the messaging app signal instead of regular phones because it's encrypted and messages would be destroyed. and the d.a. has evidence that trump knew, trump knew all about this. a recording by cohen discussing the macdougal payment through david pecker. >> court will resume on thursday

with more testimony from david pecker. joining us now is joyce vance, former u.s. attorney, mia wylie, former civil attorney in new york, and hugo, covering washington and all things donald trump. joyce, i want to start with you. we've talked often about trying cases. when you have your case in chief, that primacy is how you do this. you start and end strong when it comes to the presentation of your witnesses. was it smart for the prosecution to start with david pecker thus far? >> well, it was smart, katie, and i am reminded that it was you who first said that you thought david pecker would be a great kickoff witness. i think that's the case, right? this is someone who doesn't have the baggage of a michael cohen, and who tells the origin story. he has now walked us through the election interference conspiracy. this is now patch and kill to elect trump. that's the case that the prosecution will put on.

they've done a great job of giving the jury sort of the basics, the land marks and the road map that they'll move ahead on for mr. pecker's testimony. >> you know, mia, we learned today clearly from the prosecution, and it came through two ways. one, through the testimony of david pecker about the conspiracy with donald trump and michael cohen, but also through some oral arguments that took place outside the presence of the jury. and the prosecution is eyeing a specific new york state election law, and to quote i -- >> how powerful has it been that we've only had david pecker on the stand for a couple of hours and we're hearing him nail the elements of that statute? >> powerful, because he's nailed the particular elements of that statute. look, you have the person who is in the room where it happened,

in august of 2015, saying the boss, saying cohen said the boss wants to see you. that puts trump directly in the frame, and directing, right? we know that's one of the things we expect to hear from michael cohen, but directing what? and what very clearly unfolds in david pecker's testimony is, you know, we didn't do catch and kill before 2015, which is not illegal. catch and kills are not illegal. he sees a business interest for himself and a benefit to the campaign if he writes positive stories about donald trump as a candidate, and negative stories about other candidates. and that evolves, and he starts laying out the picture, and they also provide all of the headlines coming from "national enquirer," you know, positive pour trump but negative for other candidates. but as these allegations start to arrive, the people have stories like dino the doorman

and karen mcdougal, you know, all of it becomes something to help the campaign by ensuring these stories don't come out. but that's the key point, to help donald trump's campaign. it comes out in different ways over and over and over again. and if you're a member of that jury, i'm sitting there, i'm thinking that jury is thinking oh, well, this is a pretty clear -- he hasn't been cross examined here, but i'm getting the story. >> it makes you wonder how much was before 2015, because that's when the story picks up. they had a friendship for decades that went back decades. we started the show talking about what i call bench slap. i said todd blanche got bench slapped at the hearing in the beginning of today's proceedings. i wanted to ask you about how that affects donald trump's relationship with his lawyers, right? because trump doesn't get up

unless he takes the stand to testify. he has to rely on people like todd blanche and others to be his advocates in court. what is it like? you not only witnessed it this morning, you felt the energy, but to see somebody like todd blanche smacked down by the judge in that way. >> i think it's a really interesting question, and i think it's problematic in multiple respects. today, donald trump has -- todd has been selective in the case where is he's gone up before the judge. it's the classified documents where they have a judge in effect pulling in their favor, and todd has won every single time. idea and today for the first two times todd has lost. today, it was really visceral. i mean, for the judge to tell a defense lawyer, you're losing all credibility with the court, you don't have to be a lawyer to know that's bad. when you're the client, and you're the defendant in a criminal trial, and your lawyer

is getting admonished like that, i have to imagine that it starts the pecker relationship between trump and todd blanche. one thing that was interesting, after that colloquy ended, and todd sat back down, he was trying to be jovial with trump, and this is the todd that you normally see, but it seemed a little forced. and i wonder if the number of days that todd is going to be in the inner sang tum and best trends with trump might be coming to an end if he loses this trial. >> when todd was arguing with the judge, donald trump sat impasse save, bored looking, ahead. joyce, that's actually a really important thing i want to talk to you about, because the fireworks between the judge and todd blanche were not witnessed by the jury. this took place outside the presence of the jury before the jury returned at 11:00. but david pecker is on the stand, and one of the things

that was developed by the prosecution thus far is the length of time of that friendship. it was a friendship, it was not just a business relationship that was "mutually beneficial" but a friendship that went on for decades. does that in and of itself, and no cross yet, but does that provide do you think almost a boosting of the credibility that pecker is under subpoena and he has to testify? >> absolutely it does, right? this is one of donald trump's long-time friends. that's what he testified to. he said that they talked usually once a month or a couple of times a quarter. so maybe not best friends. but good friends. and you know, what's interesting, we don't know the full story yet, but it will be very interesting if they had this close relationship for years, and the catch and kill evolves only in its current form once trump is a candidate for the presidency. because something that the prosecution has to drive home here is that this is always

about electing donald trump. you know, cross-examination is always a little bit of a wild card with a witness like pecker. it's very difficult to know how that will go. but i want to go back to hugo's people, which is a very good one about the interaction that the judge was having with todd blanche, trump's lawyer. because something that blanche is very likely to tell trump tonight, is what happened in the courtroom today was the result of trump's own behavior. blanche was trying to defend the indefensible, trump's clear violation of the gag order, and although the judge certainly, as you said, bench slapped todd blanche, some of it there may be an element here of giving blanche a little bit of leverage to go back to his client and regain some client control. because the judge knows that if he sends trump off to jail, even if it's a sunday or a weekend, that really does let trump cloak

himself withmartyrdom. but if blanche can convince trump to go ahead and quit violating the gag order so that witnesses and jurors are protected, that's probably a better option in the judge's view. >> i want to stay on this longer. as a trial lawyer, i tried a lot of cases. the dance, the choreography, the energy between lawyers and judges outside the presence of a jury, though, does set the tone for what happens when a jury comes in. i want to talk about this, because blanche took a position that was indefensible. he kept on saying a repost didn't violate the gag order, not because it was just political but because it was a repost. and even the judge said, it's not a passive act, mr. blanche. somebody has to do something. i want to stay on this, because i thought one of the most egregious things trump did was repost the jesse watters thing. jesse watters said on tv, they

are catching undercover liberal activists lying to the judge, which is a lie. but then trump rewrote what -- or wrote and changed it and said, they are catching undercover liberal activists lying to the judge in order to get on the trump jury. so not only did trump manipulate, and that's the verb that the judge said, but blanche has to take a position and i'm thinking, this is your alibi? you want to die on this hill for your client to say this repost is something that is political in nature and doesn't offend or violate this gag order? >> yeah, i think it put todd in an impossible position. >> but he chose that. he did not have to take that position. >> i mean, i don't know what other position he could have taken. the line from trump world, all the way through on this particular issue has been oh, it wasn't trump authoring this, it was someone else's opinion. of course he should be allowed to repost someone else's

opinion. i wonder if todd knew that trump had gone in and manipulated the quote and put quote marks around the quote and the judge used the shift key to capitalizing, he was watching tv. i wonder if actually todd knew that quote had been manipulated, because when the judge pulled him up and said, this is not the quote that they have the transcript and he read from the transcript, todd had nothing to say. i think for the first time, he looked really startled. >> maybe because he didn't know. >> well, i think this whole -- i think joyce has a very good theory, giving todd blanche a lot of credit. i do think we saw a little bit of this yesterday too, where he goes a little bit too far in defending trump when he talks about him as the family man, which struck many of us as way of an overreach and one that probably did not land well with the jury. guessing, don't know for sure. but you have to wonder, because

donald trump is the kind of client who demands a narrative that makes him feel good. and that he wants to hear. i keep wondering just how much of donald trump is just in blanche's ear, and he's very clear on what his client's expectation is and going as far as he thinks he can for that zealous defense of his client. i just don't see how anyone comes up with a rational, this is a good move. and i'm having a very hard conversation with donald trump that says look, you just have to cut it out. you just have to say you're sorry, and you have to commit to stop doing it, because you're in violation of this gag order. >> blanche kind of fell on it. >> that was a client directed comment. trump world for ages has been saying that line that it was all political and he was rephrasing fox news. >> i'm sorry, i'm out of time. thank you for joining us. maya is going to stay with us. coming up, a manhattan d.a.

veteran is here on today's gag order. and the judge's striking rebuke of trump's lawyer. and trump's deepening fears stuck in court amid a legal nightmare that he literally cannot escape. and i'll talk to a former "national enquirer" editor speaking out about the deal with trump. back in 90 seconds. l with trump. back in 90 seconds is some freakin' torque. what? the dodge hornet r/t... the totally torqued-out crossover. let's get the rest of these plants in. organic soil from miracle-gro has grown me the best garden i have ever had. good soil, and you get good results. this soil will blow you away. it's the martha stewart of soil. if you spit blood when you brush, it could be the start of a domino effect. new parodontax active gum repair breath freshener. clinically proven

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fact that on the cover of the "national enquirer," there's a picture of him, and crazy lee harvey oswald having breakfast. now, ted never deseed that it was his father. instead, he said donald trump. i had nothing to do with it. >> that was donald trump back in 2016 denying his involvement in this. this magazine cover. the "national enquirer" falsely alleging ted cruz's father was linked to jfk's assassination. remember, cruz and trump, they were competing for the gop presidential nomination at that time. and today, david pecker, the ceo of the "national enquirer" publisher, american media, inc, giving bombshell testimony, admitting that story was completely manufactured, including a fake photo, pecker saying --

>> and it was all done at the direction of trump's lawyer at the time, michael cohen. pecker testifying -- >> cruz today denying comments telling nbc news that he's not interested in revisiting ancient history. pecker detailing a mutually beneficial agreement between trump and the tabloid magazine, pecker admitted when he promoted trump with positive coverage like this, what you're seeing right now, it helped both his magazine sales and it helped trump. but when the prosecution asked if buying negative stories of trump helped the magazine, he said no, that didn't help, it

benefitted the campaign. by that, he means the trump campaign. pecker testified about the catch and kill scheme involving karen mcdougal, a prosecution witness. when she first approached the "national enquirer," pecker told trump he should buy the story. trump told him, any time you do something like that, it always comes out. of course, now those words coming back to haunt donald trump. joining me now is the former executive editor with american media inc, the "national enquirer" part company. it's great to have you here. talk about what it's like to see david pecker on the stand. i want to get your honest assessment of how you think he's doing. >> it's truly surreal. until yesterday, i hadn't seen david pecker since i left american media, this the summer of 2017. he's aged. he is moving incredibly slowly. bear in mind, this is somebody

that created an incredibly toxic newsroom, governed by fear on sales figures. he was known to scream and shout. i saw him in the courtroom laughing yesterday. having said that, he is doing, i think, an incredible job of really talking the jury through in very forensic detail, as to how this election interference occurred. dating book that meeting, that key meeting in august of 2015, where he's with michael cohen and donald trump, and he's obviously the eyes and ears of the campaign. we'll run negative stories about your rivals and catching and killing stories and taking stories off the market about -- that would be negative to the campaign. >> let's be clear, what you heard from david pecker in terms of how this catch and kill scheme happens, specifically at the "national enquirer" is accurate so far? >> it is.

there's a few small details that he's off on. he said today that the dormant story was brought to him by dylan howard, but everything he is saying is telling with, my knowledge, from the time. >> he talked about chat book journalism, the first time i've ever heard that phrase, the idea that you're paying, you know, to -- well, it's not just you're saying for the source but a limit on how much you could buy from the source. we heard that these nondisclosure agreements or these source documents being signed that they were amended for somebody like dino the doorman, to make it imperpetuity for the exclusivity, et cetera. these were decisions that somebody like david pecker made, right? this is where the buck stopped at "the enquirer," right? >> that was a surreal moment when they put up the dino doorman contract. that contract was in a safe that

was in my office. a moment came where i had to open that safe, because i was helping "the wall street journal" after they broke the karen mcdougal story, and the reporter asking about other incidents going on. i told him about the doorman catch and kill, and he was trying to track down the names of the -- both the love child, the love adult at that time because of her age, and the woman. so i had to get the contract out of this rusty old safe, and then signaled him the -- david pecker was referring to how he communicated with michael cohen the encrypted messaging app, i went to put the contract back in the safe and tried to close the safe and the door wouldn't close. and i was panicking. i thought at any moment, dylan howard would come in and see the safe open. so i had to turn the tv up on my office, and i was there hammering the safe. and it finally shut. but it was terrifying moment. to see that contract up on the tv today in the courtroom was just one of those moment where

is i'm like, i'm going through this trip down that very dark memory lane, but also these comical type moments that i can't believe i lived through this. >> i see a netflix movie. i mind that to be amazing and kind of wild. but i want to talk about how outrageous in the testimony today that it was just common and okay to make these false stories up and to put them up for these negative headlines and to generate fake news, literally fake news, but it was to -- it started in 2015. that was the first time they had ever paid to take a negative story about donald trump. how important is it for the jury to understand that was that pivotal moment when the rubber met the road, i guess? >> when we heard an opening statement from the people, manhattan district attorney's office, that this was a case about a conspiracy, an agreement, that room, in august

of 2015, where you get more than one person, you have to have at least two, they got charged with conspiracy per se, but this is the theory of the case and what they have to show. this agreement was very much to ensure that the campaign was successful over and over again, and the fact that this didn't happen before is exactly the kind of, to me, and i think you said this on social media too, katie, that like that was the brass ring. that was the brass ring, because that's the thing that said to the jury, don't think this is just not hush money payments are not illegal. so that's not the story here on crime, and criming. it's the fact that this never happened before that tells you there was something unusual about this agreement that the rest starts to prove as they

show that including david pecker, that's what you put up, it's so important that david pecker saying no, this didn't help us as a business. like, it's one thing to say, it helps as a business because we get more sales if we help donald trump the candidate. that's not illegal. but we're now doing something that does not help us, we are doing it to help the campaign, and that is the agreement we made that started in august of 2015. that is stunning. >> and that's it, right? it's the idea that it's a business, it's supposed to make money. you hear that somebody like a celebrity, like donald trump allegedly fathered an illegitimate trial out of wedlock, wasn't that the bread and butter of the "national enquirer"? why would you not want to have that on the cover when i'm checking out my skittles in the checkout line? >> dylan howard attracted me to come and work at american media, at the "national enquirer" for my job, that we would break the

next john edwards, that one involved a love child. we'll also break the big celebrity scandals. and suddenly, i'm in this news organization, which is being turned into a criminal enterprise, as we now know, and we're buying and burying these stories. talk about in terms of a business perspective, we would have sold a hell a lot of copies of those magazines if we would have broken these stories and would have owned the election. donald trump is a tabloid candidate, and we could have absolutely owned the election story. instead, incredibly frustrating to me, we were burying these stories. it's a very chapter in my career, and thankfully i've come back from it. but it is something i look back on it, if we had just done the journalism and broken these stories, we could have owned the election in 2016. >> keith davidson, what have we

done? >> to dylan howard on election night, what have we done. that was a telling text message. >> but it's chilling, right? you think about the time, we sit here in 2024 at the culmination of this -- the prosecutorial phase, and this is what we're left with. it's just so for boding for him to text that and say what have we done? but there's a "we" there. dylan howard is not going to be testifying in this case, but had his hands just as dirty, too. that next morning after that text message, i was sitting in an editorial conference, that was the morning after we learned that donald trump had won, i had colleagues coming to my in tears saying what have we done? and dylan howard told staffers, it's not as bad as you think. now, we didn't know what had been going on in the background, and i'm disappointed to learn, as you just mentioned that dylan howard won't be in court because

of this condition we learned about yesterday. i hope he's okay, but he would have been able to back up what david pecker is saying and what michael cohen will potentially also say. >> bombshells. bombshells everywhere. i like to say that david pecker, all the news that's not fit to print as he chose. thank you so much for this. it's just wild, right? thanks for being here. next, we are going to turn to -- we are going to turn to one of the worst things a lawyer can hear from a judge, trust me. judge merchan telling trump's lawyer he's "losing all credibility with this court." it happened today. i'm going to go to a manhattan district attorney office veteran next. orney office veteran next

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merchan bench slapping trump's defense lawyer todd blanche today, at one point saying you're losing all credibility with this court. as a lawyer, that is something you never want to hear from a judge. and it came amid this morning's clash over the gag order barring trump from attacking potential witnesses, jurors, and others. prosecutors saying that trump -- willfully and flay grantly, that trump has violated the gag order with least ten different posts and on his campaign website. and outside of the courtroom, the prosecution today called for fines, $1,000 each, for each violation, having trump taking down the offending post and a warning that future violations could result in jail time.

stopping short of asking for trump to be put in jail at this point. the prosecution saying -- we are not yet seeking an incarceration penalty. the defendant seems to be angling for that. trump's defense lawyer pushed back, arguing that trump was being careful about complying with the order, which is when the judge hit him with that withering rebuke, you're losing all credibility with this court. judge merchan today saying he's going to make a decision on the issue at a later time, and then right after that hearing and during that brief recess before the jury came in at 11:00 a.m., trump posted on his social about a potential witness again, asking whether the former prosecutor mark pomerantz would be prosecuted. joining me are my guests. adam, i've got to start with you. 18 years, you were with the d.a.'s office in manhattan and you happen to know juan merchan.

>> we started in the office 30 years ago. rookie prosecutors together, and, you know, always judge merchan was a very serious prosecutor, serious guy in the office. and went on to take the bench a number of years ago, and has a great reputation as a judge. >> so to see judge merchan today saying to a lawyer, and you're a practicing law year right now too, to say you are losing all credibility with this court, what did you immediately think? >> well, you said it, right? words that as a lawyer in the courtroom, you never want to hear directed at you. you're pretty happy if they're directed at your adversary. so i think, look, you've been in trials. you know, people get frustrated, they get impatient. defense lawyers have to make arguments for their clients, and i think that judge merchan got

frustrated and addressed that to the defense table. but you know, that's a moment in the trial, and the trial's going to keep going. i think that it's going to be hard for the judge, because we've already seen it. donald trump is going to continue to press those buttons and to push the envelope and to challenge the authority. i think in a way it's because for him, politically, if he can get a rise out of the judge, it serves his purposes in the political realm. so it's going to be constant. >> joyce, i want to say with what adam is saying. politically, it's advantageous. but this weekend, it's unprecedented to have a former president to have to incarcerate him with secret service detail. i said something is unprecedented until it's a precedent. did the manhattan's d.a. not

seek incarceration after ten violations of the gag order and he violates again while the jury is in recess. >> yeah. so i think this is incredibly frustrating, and katie, we've discussed before, and i reject this notion that you can't put a former president in custody. the secret service's job is to protect their protectees. they don't determine -- if a court decides to incarcerate donald trump, the secret service can't countermand that order. their job is to protect the person they are supposed to be protecting in that setting. what do see we the d.a. doing? because this is difficult and because it is fraught, because everyone, including judge merchan, understands that legal arguments are intersecting with the political environment, i think they're giving donald trump the opportunity to prove what sort of sanction he needs. and if the judge imposes the fine that $1,000 fine as the largest amount the statute

authorizes, and if donald trump continues to attack jurors and/or witnesses and even court personnel, then the judge will really have no choice but to incarcerate him. that could be for an afternoon or overnight. and if trump continues to offend, then no one, let alone trump, can really object if the judge imposes more custody. by forcing trump to prove what it will take to get him to quit violating the gag order, the judge, i think, reclaims some of the control here. donald trump is trying to control the discourse by claiming the judge is out to get him. we know what he'll do when sanctions are imposed for violating the gag order. this lets the judge regain control. >> there's a statute that governs criminal contempt. it's not that damn long and it says, $1,000 fine or up to 30 days in jail or a combination of both at the discretion of the court. assuming the prosecution proves the element of the contempt,

there was no defense presented by trump died, judge merchan could reject what the d.a.'s office says. he could impose incarceration. >> he could. i don't think we're at a point where the judge is going to throw donald trump in jail. >> not even overnight? >> no. i could see him fining him at this point or ordering -- >> that doesn't make a difference, $1,000. >> he jails him, he's playing into his hands. i think at this point, he'll take some action and make him take down the post, he'll chastise him. i don't think he'll put him in. i do think if he keeps pushing the buttons, i could see a point where judge merchan might say mine, i'm putting you in and take him to the back. there's a jail cell behind the courtroom, put him in the back for an hour, an afternoon or something like that. i don't think he's putting him in jail for any extended period of time. >> maybe we'll come back and see

if you're wrong. maybe i'll be wrong, maybe i'm right. thank you to both of you for being here. still ahead, donald trump enduring his first few days of trial alone, without his family, and his maga followers also nowhere to be found. o nowhere to be found. for an everyday item to become dangerous. tide pods child-guard pack helps keep your laundry pacs in a safe place and your child safer. to close, twist until it clicks. tide pods child-guard packaging. (psst! psst!) ahhh! with flonase, allergies don't have to be scary. spraying flonase daily gives you long lasting non-drowsy relief. flonase all good. also, try our allergy headache and nighttime pills. - so this is pickleball? - pickle! ah, these guys are intense. with e*trade from morgan stanley, we're ready for whatever gets served up. dude, you gotta work on your trash talk. i'd rather work on saving for retirement. or college, since you like to get schooled.

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that is the new excruciating reality for donald trump. he's completely isolated, and so far, facing his criminal trial alone. reporters asking, where's melania? trump has faced every day of this trial without his family, "the new york times" reporting on the lack of support from maga followers -- >> it's worth noting that last year, trump predicted mass chaos if he were to be indicted, promising death and destruction if he were charged in this case. thankfully, that hasn't happened. this is the most restricted trump has ever been. forced to conform to a situation that is outside of his control. joining me now is holly john fast for "vanity fair" and m nbc political analyst.

let's talk about that'slation of trump. i've watched in the last two days, he looks pretty pathetic by himself at counsel's table. first row behind him is secret service. but then that's hit. no familiar faces. even his lawyers when they get up for side bars he sits by himself. >> you know, remember, trump is a lot about the myth of trump. a lot of his success has been he never apologizes or almost never apologizes, he often double downs. i think of like him and sean hannity and sean hannity says you're not going to be a dictator. he says, except on day one. this is a man of do you recalling down is his way of do recalling down is his way of he has to sit, he has to sit for the time the judge tells him to sit. at one point he got up early and the judge said no, you have to sit down. these are the rules.

this is a person who has not ever had to follow the rules. >> so, not having tvs in the court then, not having video in the court, how do you think this is impacting it? when we watch him, he looks like he's half asleep, his eyes are closed, he slumps in the chair, which is disrespectful to the jury when the jury is there. whether he's sleeping or not, i think it's rude. does it make a difference that america isn't seeing trump isolated, having to behave, sitting at this table? >> the new york court is what it is. there's no choices here. they don't allow cameras in this courtroom. that's what it is. they think what's important about this exercise is trump is being taken in front of a jury because he did something that, you know, is legally very likely, you know, it hasn't been proven in court yet, but it does seem to be -- the reason he's facing all these indictments. i think that's the rule of it.

look, he's done things in the last five days, he's been in court five days, six days. today is day six. that if joe biden had done any of those things, we would be having a brokered convention and people would be freaking out. he's falling asleep, he's looked exhausted, he's said things that didn't make any sense. he's, you know, done a lot of stuff, and trump is -- benefits from people -- he benefits from very low expectations. >> and to your point, he's stuck in court monday, tuesday, thursday, friday. no court on wednesday because judge merchan has to do his other cases. there are no maga supporters out there. maybe one or two people that we have seen outside the courthouse. >> yeah. lawrence has been taking pictures of the -- >> we were joking about it. there's nobody there. >> the lack of people outside the courthouse. the trump supporters showed up when he told them to show up,

and a lot of those people are still in jail. >> that's true. >> for january 6th. so i do think you can only tell your support toes show up so many times and if they're in jail, that's going to hurt. and that is a little surprising to me. the thing about the three older kids are they work for their dad or at least two of them do. i would think that -- why they don't show up in the courtroom is -- if it were my dad, i would be there. >> well, thank god your dad is not donald trump. >> that's right. very much not donald trump. >> thank gosh, excuse me. molly, thank you for being here. it's always good. up next, there are new in yp criminal case. the mar-a-lago classified documents case. after this break. n riding mower with e-steer technology. drives like a car, turns on a dime. and it cuts up to 2.5 acres on

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trump brushed off the suggestion to return the documents to national archives. trump dangled a pardon over his now indicted valet, walt nauta. he said even if he gets charged by the fbi, the president will pardon him in 2024. this information released after jack smith fought to keep some information redacted citing safety concerns. itsther latest in a growing list of questionable rulings by judge cannon who has yet to set the trial date for this case. that does it for me. be sure to catch the katie phang show on saturdays at noon right here on msnbc. "the reidout" with joy reid is up next. i asked myself, why doesn't pilates exist in harlem? so i started my own studio. getting a brick and mortar in new york is not easy. chase ink has supported us from studio one to studio three. when you start small, you need some big help.

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