yesterday, we did an event on earth day, environmental. there is an immense amount of unrest over what's happening in gaza. what we saw yesterday was the president almost qualified the issue over the weekend, saying he condemned anti-semitic issues. he also condemned those who don't understand what is going on in palestine. is he worried about backlash? >> i think he's trying to thread the needle here. it is a difficult issue. i thought it was notable at that event that he had bernie sanders, aoc with him. >> basically, on his left and right the entire time. >> it's a way of validating him. >> white house reporter for "the wall street journal," ken thomas, thank you so much. appreciate it, ken. thank you for getting up "way too early" with us. it was way too early. "morning joe" starts right now. that jury was picked so fast. 95% democrats. the area is mostly all

democrats. you think of it as a purely democrat area. it's a very unfair situation. >> donald trump may have violated the gag order in his hush money trial yet again yesterday during a radio interview, complaining about the jury. we'll get expert legal analysis on that. and yesterday's opening statements and first witness. plus, we'll go through the newly unsealed transcripts in the classified documents case which shows a former white house staffer tried to warn trump about the legal issues he could face. you know, if he stole classified documents. and it's another day where trump is in court and president biden is on the campaign trail. this time in trump's home state. we'll preview the president's speech in tampa, florida. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is tuesday, april 23rd. along with joe, willie, and me, we have u.s. special

correspondent for bbc news, katty kay. and deputy managing editor for politics at "politico," sam stein. doing a little "way too early" duty this morning. >> of course he is. >> the great sam stein. >> he is the great, legendary sam stein. >> thank you, guys. >> also a very excited sam stein. despite the fact that we are fielding a aa team, red sox are doing pretty well right now. >> better record than the dodgers. >> better record than the dodgers. >> true. >> exactly. >> it's true. >> it matters more now because it's april. anyway, willie -- >> just go to willie for the top story. >> because the red sox did not play last night, mika and i got to -- how many episodes -- >> oh, my god. we binge on a show. >> four maybe? >> it's called "pom royal."

>> so good. >> so talented. >> she's amazing. >> willie -- >> when she goes, "you failed." >> you interviewed, willie, carol burnett, the legend of legends. there was a scene with kristen wiig and carol going back and forth. >> she's just going, ah. >> mika and i looked at each other, and i was like, oh, my god. >> yeah. >> she can go -- >> they're spirit animals. >> they're spirit animals. >> yeah. >> she can go toe-to-toe with one of the greatest of all time. it was a pleasure to watch. in fact, the whole crew, everything. >> it is a beautiful, splashy show, palm beach in 1969. the sets, the houses, the

costumes, snooty people at country clubs trying to crack into society. amazing. carol burnett starts the show in a coma. she said it was the best gig ever. she could go to hair and makeup and then lie there all day. she'd get a check at the end of it. we won't give away too much, but she and kristen wiig are incredible. great cast. looks good, too. it's a great show. >> so many great actors in here. at one point, carol burnett, while she's not talking, going, ah, ah. nice throwback. katty, one, two, snooty reviews saying, that couldn't happen. that couldn't happen. they don't know palm beach. i thought it was an extraordinary send up of palm

beach. >> amazing fashion. i wish we still dressed like this. the husband, the pool boy, the guys that come into it are great. i love how you start to realize, you know, for all the glamour and glitz, it's all about secrets. everybody has secrets. they're trying to be somebody they are not actually. that's what is genius about it. it comes out wednesdays, and i wait for wednesday. >> waiting for wednesday. >> that's my life. >> you can have the day off. >> yeah. >> of course, josh lucas was on earlier. >> i know. we have to get more of them on. >> we need to collect them all. >> this is a nice break from donald trump in court. donald trump in court. donald trump in court. willie, donald trump was in court again yesterday, and i think he fell asleep again. >> i think so, too. laura dern, allison, janney, and ricci martin, incredible in the show. >> all three of them. >> yes. >> i mean, all of them are

great. go down the list. they're all extraordinary. mika and i turned to each other, and i just loved kristen wiig. she's extraordinary on "snl," in whatever she does. after it was over, we said, "that's next level." >> next level, yeah. >> she has gone next level. yeah, extraordinary. >> she has taken it to the next level. "palm royale," check it out if you haven't seen it yet. speaking of south florida, donald trump tliflives there. i was going for a segue, but it didn't work. >> by the way, at one point, allison janney looks at the mobster husband and says, "this is where we're going. we're common criminals.

this is where we're going in the future. palm beach." >> it was good. >> yeah. >> there's your segue. >> here's the segue. >> there you go. donald trump's hush money criminal trial will resume today in a new york city courtroom after a busy day yesterday, where both sides delivered opal statements and the prosecution called its first witness. in their opening, the prosecution and defense painted two very different pictures of the former president. prosecutors describing him as having been involved in years of sordid business deals. they called trump a co-conspirator in a plot to cover up a sex scandal in a catch-and-kill plan during the 2016 presidential election. they said trump's actions amount to criminal conspiracy and coverup by scheming with his then lawyer, michael cohen, and david pecker, who was the publisher of the national

enquire at the time. the defense painted trump as a family man and innocent, no crime was committed. the prosecution called pecker as the first witness. the former chairman and ceo of american media incorporated explained his publications had practiced checkbook journalism, where they paid thousands of dollars for stories. the publications would purchase stories to prevent them from being published by other outlets and bury them. pecker also testified trump met with him after the 2016 election to thank him for being the campaign's, quote, eyes and ears, scooping up information that could be harmful to trump and reporting it back to michael cohen. pecker is expected to resume his testimony later this morning. let's bring in former litigator and msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin. and former attorney and msnbc contributor, chuck rosenberg. good morning to you both. great to have you with us. lisa, you were in the overflow floor yesterday watching all this, kind of keeping track of donald trump's facial gestures,

perhaps nodding off. what was your big takeaway from yesterday, day one. >> the big takeaway is this is a crime about falsification of business records, yet, what the government seems to have the most evidence of is of the underlying conspiracy. what is still unknown to me is how they're going to prove donald trump's own involvement and the falsification of the business records with which he has been charged. so we heard a lot of preview of the evidence of the construction of the conspiracy, who was involved in it, who will place donald trump with the knowledge and intent to commit election-related crimes. what i didn't hear as much about is how donald trump then directed the coverup thereafter. for example, willie, there is a 2017 oval office meeting between donald trump and michael cohen where the prosecution said they cemented the repayment deal. how are they going to prove that? one, through the testimony of

michael cohen. but i was looking yesterday to hear how else are they going to prove that? they say they have a photograph of the two gentlemen at that meeting. they also have invoices days afterwards. a couple days after that, the first payment to michael cohen. but i was hoping to hear that they have a lot more than that. somebody who was also at the meeting, who overheard the meeting, who placed some of these documents in front of donald trump, heard his comments about that. i didn't hear that yesterday. i'm hoping that we hear prosecutors have a lot more about the back end of the deal as much as they do about the front end of it. >> chuck, what stood out to you? >> i'd agree with lisa but add one thing. circumstances also matter. we often talk about there being direct evidence, maybe conversations or photographs or emails of a transaction, but circumstances matter, too, willie. if you walk out of your house and there's snow on the front lawn, what do you think happened last night? it snowed. you may not have seen it, and there may be some other

explanation for why there is snow on your front lawn, maybe someone put it there, but the likely explanation is that it snowed. so, here, lisa, and i know you agree because we've talked about this, there are a bunch of circumstances, the timing, the motivation, that show that, after these conversations and this conspiracy formed, certain things happened, including the issuance of checks to michael cohen under the guise of a retainer agreement and then ledger entries that followed. so you're going to see, i think, over the course of this trial, willie, direct evidence of the conspiracy and what they agreed to do, and circumstantial evidence, as well. a judge will tell the jury at the end of the day, both matter. they're both compelling. you can accept circumstantial or direct evidence in deliberating on your verdict. >> so donald trump is calling on his supporters to protest outside the courthouse in lower manhattan where his hush money

trial is being held. so far, his base has been a no-show. as "the new york times" puts it, the former president is not getting the circus he wanted. the paper reports there were only a handful of trump supporters outside yesterday morning, and they were outnumbered by the trump detractors, who had signs about his alleged affair with an adult film actress. the former president tried to rally his followers with a long post on his social media site just before 7:00 yesterday morning. he'd post later that the courthouse is completely closed down, which it is not, suggesting the poor turnout was a plot against his supporters. >> yeah. >> let me go to sam, but you first, joe. i mean, i know there's going to be this hearing before court resumes today about the gag order. i just wonder, i mean, donald trump wants to be careful about asking people to come and rally. i mean, the last time he was

pushing people to show up somewhere, there was an insurrection on the capitol. he was saying, "i'll meet you there." i don't think he should be telling -- i'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me that he might want to just go to court. >> that's who he is, though. >> and not ask people to show up in his defense. >> sam, after he was inaugurated as president of the united states, you could go in the white house for the next week. usually when you're outside the press room, you can see all these different pictures. the president with a young child. president with marines saluting. president with this, president with that. trump put up pictures of the crowd from angles that made it look like he had more people at his inauguration than he actually did. he's obsessed with this stuff. i will say, he told them to congregate peacefully. maybe that's where the misstep was for donald trump because nobody showed up. i mean, so it is maddening to him. everything seems to be going against him. he's having to sit in this

courtroom. i thought it was fascinating last night on fox news, you actually had fox news hosts complaining that he was too old. he was a 77-year-old man. who would make a 77-year-old sit down all day? >> all day. >> that's what a lot of 77-year-old men do. they sit down all day. they watch the atlanta braves. i know, my dad was one of them. but a lot of people sit down all day. he's just going crazy and, to add insult to injury, of course, he's been outnumbered by people that are having, you know -- his supporters are outnumbered by people that are holding up signs talking about porn stars and time in prison. >> yeah. i mean, he doesn't have sean spicer this time to go out there and tell everyone that it's the biggest crowd ever to witness a court case, right? we is see it with our own eyes and ears.

there are not that many people out there. some of it may have to do with the fact it's taking place in new york city. there are not that many trump supporters who are there. some of it may have to do with the fact that the last time he urged people to congregate on his behalf was january 6th. we know how that ended up. certainly, a lot of people have been arrested for their decision to descend on the capitol. i can't get around the fact, and maybe lisa can address this, the act of encouraging protests at the courthouse, of asking your supporters to make a spectacle of the court proceedings, to a degree, maybe not in legal terms, but to a degree, it seems like an attempt at intimidation. i'm wondering if that's permeated the courthouse at all, if the judge is aware of this, if there are ramifications or implications for trump for doing things like this. >> i think, sam, that those implications or ramifications

pale in comparison to the alleged violations of the gag order we're going to deal with this morning at 9:30. the d.a. has brought to the judge's attention at least ten different instances that they say are trump's statements that violate this gag order. many of them are the same statement with respect to michael cohen, but there's also a statement with respect to the jurors themselves. in particular, a quotation from a fox news host about democratic activists trying to infiltrate this jury, to throw it against donald trump. that's quite an accusation. putting aside the existence of the gag order but given the wording of the gag order, even worse. one thing i want to bring to your and our viewers' attention, in asking for this hearing, they have asked for $1,000 per violation, and they've asked the judge to award what is just and proper in addition.

that matters because under the criminal contempt statute in new york, you only have two options. you can either fine someone $1,000 per violation, or you can put them in jail for up to 30 days. in asking the judge to take additional measures to the extent he finds them just and proper, that is the d.a. subtly saying, if you think this guy deserves the slammer, now is the time. it's in your court. >> katty kay, i don't want to run too far up field, but i promise we will get back to this point quickly. i remember in 2016, opinion page editors had to cut down on the quotes that columnists would want to bring into their columns from william butler yates' "the second coming" and apply it to donald trump. especially the line, the best lack all conviction while the worst are full of passionate

intensity. that was, it seemed, very applicable in 2016, but i actually thought about those lines when i -- when i saw trump whining about the fact that, basically, nobody cares anymore. this isn't even elvis '77. this is like the tour bus has rolled on, and people just don't care. i don't see the intensity, but i will tell you, i see a lot of exhaustion from people who voted for donald trump in 2016. >> yeah. look, you see that reflected on the streets of manhattan. you see it reflected in all of the polls that show us that there's a phenomenal lack of interest in this election writ large. what are we? the nbc polls seem to show the least interest in 20 years. i don't think this is going to be another situation where donald trump drives out massive turnout like he did in 2016, like he did against him in 2018,

like he did in 2020. i mean, that's been the argument of the trump campaign all along, is whether you love him or you hate him, trump drives people to the polls and manages to find new voters to come to the polls, which is how he squeaked out his win in 2016. well, if that's the model they're looking at in 2024, it just doesn't seem to be there. you know, we look with our eyes. we hear it from our friends. we talk to people who say they're exhausted. i don't know anyone that isn't already exhausted, and we still have another six months to go of this election. we still have another however many, six weeks or so of this court hearing to report on. but, chuck, let me ask a question to you about the prosecution's strategy as you saw it laid out yesterday. there seems to be this focus on election interference, that election interference is behind this, and, yet, that's not actually what trump is charged with in this case, unlike in georgia

documents. those cases are election related. is that a risky strategy for the prosecution to try and throw that in there, and will it complicate things for the jurors? >> i think, katty, it helps explain things if done properly, right? you're absolutely right, that mr. trump isn't charged with election interference. he is charged with the falsification of the records. but there is a context to this. there is a story to this. it's a logical one. it's a linear one. the government is trying to tell it chronologically. the reason that you end up with falsified records is because there was a plot, a conspiracy, a scheme to try and suppress what storestormy daniels, karen mcdougal, and others had to say about their liaison with mr. trump. that set off a string of events. payments to michael cohen as retainers, when it was a passthrough to get money to these women to keep them quiet.

so in the context of a trial, and i think context matters, you want to tell a jury why it happened. you don't have to prove motive, but if you can prove motive, it makes it a much more powerful case. look, to your question about whether or not this is risky, trials are always risky. government has a huge burden. they have to prove their case by proof beyond a reasonable doubt to a unanimous jury. there's always some risk. but if you can explain why things happen and tell it in a chronological fashion, i actually think that makes a more compelling story for a jury. one that is easier for them to latch onto and to follow. >> lisa, to that point, we've said in the leadup to this trial that this is, of course, a hush money case, but it is also an election interference case. that's not really what the prosecution is arguing, is it? in fact, the defense has said, that is not election interference. quieting people who might hurt your campaign, todd blanche

said, that's not interference, it's democracy. his words, not mine. is it exclusively hush money and not election interference. >> it is the opposite. it is primarily about election interference, because but for that conspiracy, you don't have felony charges. the statute in new york that prohibits falsification of business records, those are misdemeanor crimes, unless you do it with an intent to commit or conceal another crime. that's where the election interference comes in. but for the intent to either commit or conceal this conspiracy to throw the election, these would not be felony charges. and so they have to tether the hush money payments and the conspiracy to silence these women and the coverup, that all has to be tethered to an effort to change the outcome of the 2016 election. they don't have to prove that it actually did so. in fact, the prosecution said, we will never know whether this made the difference, but, at the end of the day, their line was, this is about election fraud,

pure and simple. >> msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin and former u.s. attorney chuck rosinberg, thank you, both. we'll see more of you. ahead, president biden is heading to florida to put the spotlight on abortion rights. we'll have a preview of that trip and talk about the split screen of biden campaigning while donald trump is sitting in a courtroom. plus, colleges and universities across the country are struggling to contain pro-palestinian protests. we'll show you what some democratic lawmakers had to say during a visit to columbia university yesterday. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be back in just one minute. nute

24 past the hour. president biden traveled to florida today to deliver remarks highlighting efforts by democrats to safeguard abortion access and casting former president donald trump as a

threat to reproductive rights. the president will forcefully advocate for reproductive freedom and call out donald trump's abortion ban, as he has been doing since roe was overturned, according to a campaign spokesman. the biden campaign has been emphasizing what it sees as a potential path to victory in the state that was captured by trump in both 2016 and 2020. biden's visit comes days before a six-week abortion ban in the state takes effect. >> unpopular ban. let's bring in the ceo of messina group, served under president obama, ran his 2012 re-election campaign. jim, it is very easy to look at florida and say it's out of reach. if you look at all the republicans that have moved to the state, you know, look at the -- >> trump country. >> the numbers have really gone up. that being said, we always have

to remember, andy beshear won the state of kentucky, a pro-choice referendum won the state of kentucky. andy beshear won, i think, in part because of an extraordinary ad of a young woman who was raped and forced to carry her child to term. i'm curious what your thoughts are about joe biden going to florida. is he wasting his time? >> no, i don't think so. in part, you know, i will never try to lecture joe scarborough about florida, but, you know, when you look at it, it really is about a national issue. he's driving this across the country. barnicle and i were talking backstage, this is the issue joe biden needs to continue to drive down and tell the kind of stories that andy beshear told. have the people with him talking about why this is so important. that'll drive these numbers across the battleground states. when you look at the contrast, when you run campaigns, you want contrast. the contrast between donald trump sitting in a courtroom every day, saying crazy things,

and joe biden talking about this unbelievable effort to take away your fundamental rights, that's not just a florida issue. that's in all seven battleground states. we'll see whether florida is a battleground state in 197 days, but it doesn't really matter. you want the contrast. florida is a great place to do it as their supreme court looks at another one of these crazy six-week bans. >> you know, a couple months ago, we were talking about bedwetters in the democratic party. even during that time, the biden white house was yawning, like, eh, whatever. we've got a theory of the case that's going to work out. you look at the trends of recent polls. seems like they may have been onto something. here's the latest maris college poll. it follows up on an nbc news poll that actually shows when you put robert kennedy jr., cornell west, and jill stein in, biden leads. biden up by five points in this case over donald trump. it's within the margin of error,

but it is up from a two-point lead biden held earlier this month. again, what i always say is, this early, it's not about the bottom line, it's about trend lines. talk about the trend lines you've been seeing. >> yeah, look, in the 23 polls in the past month, biden leads in ten. trump leads in eight. five are tied. you know, when you go to d.c., you think there is panic in the streets of d.c. because democrats are like, oh, my god, the polls are terrible. it's like, no, look at the trend lines. look how things are getting better. that's what you really want to see right now. you want to see the numbers continue to move, and you want to see who rfk is taking votes from. when you look at the model, the thing you can't figure out, why i don't trust the polls, is who is the third party taking votes from? it looks like he is taking more votes from trump, which makes sense. it is unlikely democrats are going to want to vote for an anti-choice, anti-vaxer in the middle of this. it makes sense that there would be more trump voters that would

look at rfk than biden voters. those are the trend lines we're going to be watching the next 198 days. >> jim, you've always been bullish while others have been wetting the political bed over the campaign with the release of every new swing state poll. the theory of the case is we're going to go into the states, rail against the abortion laws. we're going to talk about the economic data being strong while we still need to drive down inflation. he's going to talk about things he's done as president while donald trump is in a courtroom and you're reminded he allegedly paid off a porn star while allegedly having an affair with her, interfered with an election, took classified documents back. is that what we're watching finally right now, what the biden campaign has been talking about all along. >> the biden political campaign is probably the most underrated around. they've had a theory of the case, and it is starting to work. the contrast. we talk about contrast.

in political campaigns, you have to have the contrast. there is no better contrast to the president doing his job and donald trump sitting in a courthouse every day saying crazy things. part of the problem is voters forgot about the bad trump, the trump they didn't like, because they didn't see him for two years. they're not on truth social. they don't see the crazy things he is saying every day. now they're starting to. they're starting to say, oh, that's the guy i didn't like. >> yeah. you know, sam stein, it is interesting, and i'll have you go to jim next, but it is very interesting how these cases have lined up. i think like a lot of legal people, i'm not saying i'm a legal person, but i listen to them. they come on my show. i take copious notes. i think this manhattan case is the weakest of the cases, by far. i would have never brought it. i think it's the weakest case. i think the strongest case is the documents case. but the way things are lined up, and, again, it's just the way things are lined up.

joe biden has nothing to do with any of this, though those walking through the fevered swamps of other networks stay he does. but this is, i think, the weakest legal case, but, politically, it's probably the strongest case. politically, this is something people can put their arms around. hush money payments. porn stars. michael cohen. you've got all of this chaos going on. for the people that when i was saying they're exhausted, for the people who are exhausted, you know, they're not going to be following this day in and day out, but they're going to look up and go, oh, that guy. maybe i'll just not vote or maybe i'll vote for rfk. i mean, it is -- again, i think it is a weak case legally. i think politically, though, it'd be the last case he would want to start with. >> you're saying you would rather not be in a hush money trial with -- involving an

affair with a porn star in your presidential campaign? yeah. >> if i was running, i'd rather argue the presidential records act, even though i think he's guilty of that one. >> you know, yes, i do agree. i think the one kind of weird caveat here is, you know, we went through this in 2016, not the specifics, but the "access hollywood" tape is what comes to mind. in that moment, everyone was just, like, the bottom has fallen out. this was done. we just obviously didn't know what we didn't know. people rallied behind trump enough, enough people rallied and enough were disinfected with hillary clinton, and it worked for him. this is not a historical parallel. the contrast does not work for trump in two degrees. one, it reminds people of the chaos, of the show that surrounds him, and biden, he

gets to go out and do traditional, generic political speeches, which helps with the contrast he wants to create. second, it ties trump up in a courthouse at a time when he needs to be campaigning and raising money. he's got a real cash disadvantage. this is what i'd ask jim about. you know, money is the biggest currency on campaigns, but currency, little currency also matters. how does this just affect the campaign itself, from the inability to get a candidate out on the road, do these events. he's tied to new york for four days a week. we can do radio interviews, something on wednesday and the weekends, but that logistically has to be extremely difficult, right? >> it is, sam. the one thing you can't get more of in a campaign is time. you can go get more money, can get a new message, you can do lots of things, but you cannot get more time. he knows that. that's why he's lashing out. he's sitting in this courtroom

day after day while his opponent is out there talking to voters. that waste of time, we only have 198 days here. every day sitting in the courtroom, that's the contrast. you and joe said the magic word, which is chaos. voters look at this chaos and say, do we really want four more years of this every day, this kind of thing? it's not really about porn stars and hush money, it's reminding voters of the chaos that was the trump four years and why they don't want it again. that's the contrast that is driving donald trump crazy. >> jim, i want to underline something you just said. it speaks to why donald trump is, you know, going crazy sitting in that courtroom. it's something i felt even when i was running in a little congressional race, i'd look at the calendar 18 months out and go, oh, my god, i don't have

enough time. i don't have enough time. doesn't matter how small the race is, how big the race is -- well, if you're running for president, it matters a lot -- but that resource, that precious resource of time. i don't care what race you're running in, you never have enough time. if you're donald trump or if you're running donald trump's campaign, what do you do to try to adjust for that? >> yeah, i think you do what they're doing, which is try to put him on shows, get him on interviews, do hits. you know, he is calling into events. he called into his rally the other night. he didn't want to attend because it was raining too hard for his hair. like, you're kind of going to do some of that stuff. then, you know, i put him on the phone raising money. the cash stuff that sam was talking about is real. they're being badly outraised, and that matters in the battleground states. you need money to go on ads. you need money to turn your vote

out. you put him on the phone and start raising money. right now, they're just getting buried in fundraising. >> turns out, supporters don't want to give money to pay legal bills are all these trials. they want it to go to an election. let me ask you quickly at the end here, jim, if we go back to the maris poll about rfk jr., democrats panic a little bit. they say, this guy, his family is democratic. he is associated with democratic politics, his family is, anyway, and he may cost joe biden the election. you think back to ross perot, got about 19%. rfk jr. at 14% here. should democrats be concerned about rfk jr. polling as high as he is? >> absolutely. we should be concerned about everything, willie. especially in a race where you can argue hillary clinton lost, in part, because of the third parties getting 6%, democrats still have ptsd from 2000 in florida with nader. that's why rfk is the one thing

that makes the polls confusing. you just don't know in what state who he is pulling votes for. if you are a democrat or republican, yeah, he's the thing you don't know about. from a campaign manager, that's the stuff that keeps you up at night. you can control everything else, but there's some things you can't control. let's be honest, rfk is something you cannot control. >> ceo of the messina group, jim messina, thank you very much for coming on this morning. coming up, our next guest is out with a simple formula for financial security. professor of marketing at the nyu stern school of business scott galloway will walk us through what he says you need to do to win today's wealth game. "morning joe" will be right back.

business. it's not a nine-to-five proposition. it's all day and into the night. it's all the things that keep this world turning. the go-tos that keep us going. the places we cheer. and check in. they all choose the advanced network solutions and round the clock partnership from comcast business. see why comcast business powers more small businesses than anyone else. get started for $49.99 a month plus ask how to get up to an $800 prepaid card. don't wait- call today.

it's a busy week on wall street with a number of earnings reports due from several tech giants. tesla kicks things off today amid price cuts, recalls, and more. google and meta follow and face pressure to deliver amid a recent market sell-off. joining us now, professor of

marketing at the nyu stern school of business, scott galloway. he is out today with the new book entitled "the algebra of wealth: a simple formula for financial security." do we have to be good at algebra? >> no. >> thank god. >> what if you had to take it two or three times? >> well, you would be -- >> that's a problem, right? >> -- a co-host of "morning joe" if you had to do that. >> oh, i knew it. >> scott, we're going to get to your book, but it's going to be a long and winding road. there's things -- i'm a big fan of yours, and there's things i want to talk about first. one of my pet peeves seems to be one of yours, and that is, you know, 2 million people have been killed in the sudan civil war. i haven't seen a protest at nyu for that. 500 news arabs killed by assad. saddam hussein killed over 1 million muslims in wars, gassed

them. i didn't see protests there. yet, your school is shut down right now because israel is responding to the worst attack against jews worldwide since the holocaust. help us sort through that. >> we can debate that response. >> again, i don't know algebra, but i'm pretty good at the common denominators here and why there's no common denominators in all of these. it's just that it's jews defending their homeland. if you look at the numbers, even with american wars, they don't add up. >> first off, good to be with you. i especially appreciate your leadership on this issue. i'll give more numbers. 2,200 american servicemen killed at pearl harbor. we kill 3.5 million japanese, 100,000 in one night. 2,800 americans in 9/11. we kill 400,000 people in afghanistan and iraq. we weren't accused of genocide. if mexico had elected a jihadist

cartel to run their country and they incurred into texas, and on a per capita basis, killed 35,000 people with a population of the university of texas, and on the way back, took the freshmen class at smu hostage and hid them under tunnels, what would we do? it'd be the great radioactive parking lot. jews are not allowed, and israel is not allowed to prosecute a war, and they are prosecuting a war more humanely than we have done. the ratio of combatants to civilians is -- of civilian death to combatant mortality is lower than japan, lower than in germany. there's just a different standard for jews and israel when it comes to prosecuting a war. they're allowed to fight back to a truce, but unlike america or any other western nation that has attacked as viciously, they're not allowed to win a war. it's a double standard. >> willie, i've said on this show consistently for 16 years, even before this heinous hamas

attack, said on this show for 16, 17 years, if what is done to israel with missiles being fired into israel consistently by hamas, if that were done from mexico into texas, we would be in mexico city with tanks. we'd be surrounding mexico city by nightfall, just wouldn't put up with it. no country would. >> yeah, especially after what we saw on october 7th. scott, we were talking as you sat down about what's happening on your campus, what's happening up at columbia. two very different scenes, i think, based on what you're telling me about at nyu. but a lot of what we're hearing with these protests, and, yes, there are outside agitators, isn't even about the war so much. it's just this open floodgate of anti-semitism. somehow, october 7th gave people cover to come out from under

their rocks and just chant out loud the worst things you can say about jews. in other words, a lot of what we hear on campuses don't just protect the civilians in gaza, which we all agree needs to happen, but kill more jews, is what we're hearing in some of these chants. >> yeah. october 6th, if someone asked me the state of anti-semitism in the united states, i would have said it doesn't exist, that i don't see it. this was a level of hate on an iceberg that was 99.9% below the water line, but we didn't know the volume. i do think there is a double standard. i walked by what i thought was a peaceful protest last night, but i can tell you, if i went to the nyu square with a white hood on and said, "lynch the blacks and burn the gays," my id would be shut off that night and i'd never work in academia again. no need for the words context or nuance. i wouldn't be protected by first amendment or free speech.

i would have out of the world of academia. it seems like we have a double standard when it comes to hate speech as long as it's against jews. >> we're not just talking about the exercising of free speech and protest, which we agree people have. there are spaces on campus for that. it is what they're saying, it's the harassment of jewish students. why is that the double standard? of course you're right. you don't even have to say it out loud. if these things were being said about black people, gay people, latinos, asians, anybody else, shut down the school, everybody is expelled. why is there still the double standard? >> i think it is complicated. i think, one, young people have a healthy gag reflex on what people our age think. i think that's healthy. two, i don't think israel streaked itself in glory the last 20, 30 years. they shifted from being a david to the goliath. also, incorrectly, students inflate the civil rights movement with what is going on in palestine and digressed, unfortunately, because an

orthodox promoted that there are the positiveoppressors and oppr. israel is seen as ground zero for whiteness and how wealthy they are. what might sound paranoid, but i think we're manipulating youth, whose frame for the world is tiktok. 52 videos are pro-palestinian for every one served on israel. i think we're manipulated. americans are easier to convince. social media is sowing division and socialization. >> we're allowing the chinese to shape the debate. they're children. i'm glad the bill passed in the house. you know, scott, one final thing, then i promise we'll get to your book. i'll just say this, and then i'll go far up field in another direction. this argument that european

columnists have somehow, that this is colonization in israel, no. israel was created three years after we discovered that european colonists gassed 6 million jews. so the conflation of jews who, you know, european jews were gutted. look before the war, after the war, go country by country. it was just absolutely horrifying. this whole idea, trying to throw this on europe is, again, just pure madness. >> well, jordan was coordinating anti-drone and missile technology airborne, coordinating with israel. the kingdom of saudi arabia, it ends up, was supportive of israel. i'd ask the far-left groups on

campus, what do their arab brothers and sisters know that you don't? this is, like i said, i've absolutely never seen anything like it. it is rattling to jews across the nation. i'd like to think that america is steadfast here. i think the biden administration has done a great job. but i think young people, over time, will look back and regret their views on it. again, i think there is outside forces at work here. >> you mentioned tiktok. >> i -- >> go ahead, joe. >> i was going to ask about the tiktok ban that you referenced. obviously, there are concerns from tiktok. i think they're taking this seriously at this point, that they may have to sell. what are the odds that this actually happens? in other words, that tiktok is not available or new versions of tiktok are not available to people in the united states? >> well, to joe's point, imagine it's the cold war in the '60s and the kremlin owns cbs, nbc, and abc. the fact we've let this be implanted into 170 million of

our youth by an adversary is absolutely insane. i'm not a lawyer, but i believe the way they framed the law more about trade symmetry and the fact it is executive action and they have 9 to 12 months, banning was the wrong word. this will be a divestment. i've found situations like this, money wins. there are american and chinese investors who have a quarter trillion dollars on the line. my prediction, it'll be divested. you won't lose the tiktok. we'll have the said trade symmetry that china demands. i'll list every american media company that has been allowed to operate in china. okay, i'm done. this is about trade asymmetry. you don't need to wrap yourself in an argument around first amendment. this is trade symmetry. they'd never let us do it there. we allow byd. we allow shien because they have the northface and polo in their market. they let no media companies in

there. it's crazy that we would allow this. >> it is crazy. i'll tell ya what, we promised we'll get to scott's book. we're going to do that. again, mika and i a little skiddish because the word algebra is in there. >> i got triggered. >> we're going to talk about the book. i'm also going to ask scott to explain how the entire process is -- and he is a capitalist like me, except he has a lot of money -- how the process is rigged to help the richest americans. >> there is that. >> still ahead. also still ahead, democratic senator michael bennett of colorado will join us ahead of today's senate vote on a major aid package for ukraine. plus, we'll speak with the exiled crown prince of iran, who says iran's attack on israel were the actions of an increasingly weak and divided regime, desperate to hang on to power. "morning joe" will be right back. ahhh!

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welcome back. it's a few minutes before the top of the hour, and we will be getting to the very latest on former president donald trump's criminal hush money trial which resumes today at 11:00 a.m. before that, there is a hearing on the gag order, whether or not he broke it and what the consequence should be, if any. we'll get to that in a moment. but we're back with professor of marketing at the nyu stern school of business, scott galloway. his new book entitled "the algebra of wealth: a simple

formula for financial security." doesn't seem so simple to me. >> we're talking about everything but his book. let's get to your book, scott. but, first, if you will, i've seen you talk about this in speeches, talk about how the system is rigged so if you have $1 million, great. if you have $5 million, $10 million, even better, life gets easier because of the way our tax system is set up. >> yeah. we have a very progressive tax system until you get to about the 99th percent. essentially, the people who get most damage by the tax cut, lower to middle-income houses whose taxes have gone up because of consumption, not federal. those who are really hurt are the workhorses. they make an exceptionally good income, but may be paying 54% tax rate. i bet some of the people are around this table right now. if you can make the jump to lightspeed and invest in assets, stocks, housing, then your tax

rate plummets. in america, we've decided to try to create a super class of billionaires and then if they win the gold medal, they get the silver and the bronze. two biggest tax deductions, capital gains and mortgage interest. who owns homes and stocks? people my age. who rents and makes money from current income? young people. we've decided that the wealthiest people in the world should get exceptionally more wealthy. minimum wage, $9.25. the average 70-year-old is 72% more wealthy. under 40, 70% less wealthy. we're transferring more wealth from the poor and middle class and upper class to the super rich and from young to old. >> you say in the book, which is true and alarming, but say a 30-year-old american in america right now is doing no better than his or her parents. that's a new thing in american history. you'd think, over time, you know, we want to do better than

the last generation. it's not happening anymore. >> i think it all ties into what we're talking about on campuses. the first time in our nation's history, a 30-year-old man or woman isn't doing as well as his or her parents at 30. that is the social compact breaking down. people aged 30 to 34, 60% of them in 1990 had one child. now, it's 27%. people are opting out of america. they're not optimistic about it. they're not having kids. young people aren't having sex. they're not meeting, not mating. the pool of emotionally and economically viable men shrinks every day, which lessens household formation. so we have a real issue. young people are enraged. it turns every cut, every movement into an opportunistic infection because they're pissed off. they see exceptional wealth across my generation and people in certain industries, and they are really struggling. they're purchasing power is going down. the incumbent creates artificial

scarcity on campus. we reject 90% of the applicants. those who already have a degree have the degree go up in value. we have a housing permit, sequestered from young people. housing pricing are bouncing. a young person, a house, stocks that i don't own skyrocket in value? let's have covid relief and plus the markets, take assets way up because of a million people dying would be bad, tragic, if i got less wealthy. we're doing it on their credit card. young people have every reason to be enraged and every issue they see, they look up, get angry, see someone doing better than them. every day, it is speedballed in their face that they're failing, they're not doing as well. kids are more depressed, anxious, obese and addicted. we've make a decision to let this happen by ensuring the people around this table stay wealthy at the cost of young

people. >> scott, the social element of that you mentioned, the happiness, anxiety, that kids aren't getting together anymore, they're not having kids, what happened in one generation? social media has to play a role in it, i'm sure, but what else do you see that has created this climate for this generation? >> i think you have the most talented, well-resourced people in the world, and companies trying to convince a young man that he can have a reasonable fcsimile of life in his basement behind a screen. you don't need friends. go to reddit. you don't need to get a job. go on robin hood or coinbase and trade crypto and stocks. you don't need to go through the rejection and the expense, the humiliation, working out, having a plan and humor and showering to get a romantic relationship. you have uporn. we have an entire generation, especially of young men, at home, sequestering from society, and missing out on what it means -- you know, there is a

reason romantic comedies are 2 hours and not 15 minutes. true victory in life is hard. going out, meeting someone, finding mentors, finding mates, that stuff is hard, but that's what real victory and real life is like. because a lot of men feel rejected on dating apps, the number of jobs accessible to them has gone down, you have potentially a group of men who are saying, i'm on a low-risk entry to life and go down a rabbit hole. when they don't have social connections, don't get out, don't have a prospect of a romantic relationship, they're more prone to conspiracy theories, misogynistic content, resistant to climate change, and some become really bad citizens. we are producing too many of the most dangerous person in the world, a young, broke, and lonely young man. >> why is it that so many of these young people that you're talking about seem to head into life after going to a four-year school, two-year school, whatever, head into life with a lack of financial literacy? they don't know anything about money or the growth of money.

all they know is the absence of money. >> i think we need to have in our curriculums in high school a class on adulting. my kid can do integers and basic calculus but doesn't under the interest on his credit card. there is basic financial literacy we're not teaching. when you replace civics with computer science, you lose a sense of the country and start learning about programming. when you don't talk about basic financial literacy or even mating -- i'd like to see in the senior year of college mating dynamics and help men understand, and women, what is unique to them and their vulnerabilities to social media. i was talking about the challenges of men from social media. at exactly the wrong time in a young girl's life, she is presented with evaluation where she never gets to leave the high school cafeteria. 24 by 7. as my colleague, jonathan hyde, has pointed out, we've seen a dramatic uptick in suicide. but i think effectively, we just don't have basic skills for

young people. we're not -- we're teaching them advanced things but not teaching them the basics around what a mortgage is, what interest rates mean. i think we could use a basic class on adulting junior and senior year in high school. >> katty kay has a question for you. >> scott, i have four kids between the ages of 18 and 30. you're talking about exactly what i hear from them all the time. you haven't mentioned climate change yet, another thing they're mad at all of us for destroying in their lives. but the title of the book sounds like you have hope, or at least some positive message. let's end the conversation there. you have identified things that young people can do relatively easily, it sounds like, within their grasp, if they just put their minds to it, that would help their financial prospects. what are they? >> find your focus and talent. find your passion, as terrible as i, telling you, is already

rich. and the 90% plus employment rate. the less sexy, the human return on investment is greater. majority of our time on this planet, we haven't lived longer than 35 years. young people can't recognize they're going to be around for 60 or 70 years. how fast has it gone? lean into time. low cost etfs. 11% sounds awful. guess what? every 20 years, you're increasing your wealth eight-fold. diversification. you don't need to be a hero. don't try to find the needle in the hay stack. identify been around the brightest minds in finance. my summary is no one has any idea. buy the whole hay stack and let it grow slowly, diveiication takes over. a little stoicism. peopleimpressed with your stuff as you are. be the person who saves early. if you wake up and you aren't a baller, don't sell a company,

don't go public, it's okay. you'll have financial security by the time you're our age. i know how to get you rich. the bad news is the answer is slowly. >> one last thing, and i'll let you go. we could talk all morning. money, in fact, you write in the book, is happinesshappiness. contrary to what you've heard. but in that your health care is better, housing is better. if you follow some of the tips and others, it affords you a lifestyle that is better for you and your happiness. >> america becomes more like itself every day. it's a loving, generous place for people with money. it is a violent place for people without money. this is, you know, the whole shooting match is get focused on financial security, such that you can use that as the means to the end. the ends across every study around happiness is deep and meaningful relationships. what money meant for me and economic security is it frees me up to focus on cementing the key relationships in my life. i would wish that for everyone. >> the new book is "the algebra of wealth: a simple formula for

financial security." from the nyu stern school of business, scott galloway. we could talk for four hours. thank you for being here. appreciate it. >> thank you. the prosecution's first witness in donald trump's hush money trial will be back on the stand this morning. nbc news senior legal correspondent laura jarrett has a recap of what happened yesterday in court. >> reporter: prosecutors painting a stark portrait of former president trump in their opening statements during his hush money trial. a case mr. trump has argued is designed to derail his campaign. >> this is done as election interference. everybody knows it. >> reporter: but prosecutors said it is mr. trump who is guilty of election interference by paying off an adult film star to silence her before the 2016 election. telling the jury, this case is about a criminal conspiracy to bury a story that could have cost him the presidency. then lying in his business records over and over again to

cover it all up. the alleged scheme stretches back to 2015, a meeting at trump tower between mr. trump, his former fixer and attorney michael cohen, and david pecker, the long-time publisher of the national enquirer. this is where prosecutors say the trio hatched a plot for the tabloids to buy and bury any damning stories about mr. trump, catch and kill. it was the release of the "access hollywood" tape that turned the campaign upside down in october of 2016. lead prosecutor matthew coanglo reading mr. trump's remarks from the video for the jury, arguing the former president was so disparate to contain the damage with female voters, he directed cohen to pay off stormy daniels so she couldn't go public about an alleged sexual encounter, which mr. trump denies. it is not the hush money itself he is charged with in this trial. it is how then president trump documented his monthly reimbursement payments to cohen

on internal company records as legal expenses. prosecutors telling the jury of seven men and five women, it was election fraud, pure and simple. but mr. trump is not facing conspiracy or campaign finance violations, something his defense sought to highlight in opening statements. mr. trump's attorney describing him as a husband and a father, a person just like you and me, and is innocent. saying, the payments to cohen were for legal expenses. arguing, there is nothing wrong with trying to influence an election. it's called democracy, not a crime. the alleged crime he is facing, a low-level felony, carrying up to four years in prison if convicted. the judge could sentence him to probation. mr. trump noting the previous d.a. and federal prosecutors looked at this case and did not charge him. >> indicted for that? people said, i can't believe it. this is the case. so we did nothing wrong. >> reporter: mr. trump's attorney tasking cohen as the

prosecution's only real witness, out for revenge, saying he's, quote, obsessed with mr. trump and wants to see him in an orange jumpsuit because cohen's entire financial livelihood depends on trump's destruction. cohen has pleaded guilty to campaign finance and lying under oath. prosecutors defending him, saying he made mistakes in the past to protect his boss. >> nbc's laura jarrett with that report. let's bring in nbc news and msnbc political analyst, former u.s. senator claire mccaskill. she and jen palmieri are co-hosts of the msnbc podcast, "how to win 2024." also, a former prosecutor. claire, i ask you, knowing how donald trump operated in all of his business dealings, he never emailed. like, there was a lot in court about the first witness stated pecker having a private email, but doubtful that you'll see

donald trump's actual imprints and interaction on paper. if they had one, that would be fascinating. how do they build a case around him getting other people to do his bidding if the other people did the bidding willingly? >> well, it's a matter of hard evidence. it is a matter of corroborating witnesses that were party to this scheme. clearly, cohen has some credibility issues, but it is very believable that he would lie for trump. a lot of people who worked for trump lied for that. the fact that he can tell the truth now, juries have a way of smelling the truth. i'll tell ya what really struck me about yesterday. i think people underestimate how important opening statements are. i've tried a boatload of criminal jury trials. the tone is set during opening statement. lawyers have to be very careful about really having credibility. you don't promise things in an opening statement you can't deliver. and you don't say things in an

opening statement that the jury immediately says to themselves, well, i don't know about that. let's compare and contrast the two openings. the prosecutors did an opening that was a very strong narrative, a timeline, promising hard evidence, corroboration, phone records, documents, in addition to witnesses. the defense, what did they do? they said donald trump is a family man. seriously? i mean, you know, the jury is going, wait a minute, i think he traded out lies like he changed his shirts. he committed adultery all through his life. these are new york juries. they've seen the press for decades about the fact that he's not a family man. where was melania? how do you have a criminal trial with sexual conduct as the essence of the case in so many ways and not have your wife there? then stand up and say you're a family man? then they went on to say that he did nothing wrong. he did nothing wrong. his business was perfect.

he was a great businessman. he did nothing wrong. a smart defense attorney, you have a normal client, would have stood up and said, hey, you know, he's made some mistakes, but this is not a felony. that's what a smart defense attorney would have done if he had a client that would let him do that. unfortunately, these defense attorneys can't do that because trump won't let them. they have got to say he's perfect. they've got to lie just like michael cohen did for him. >> wow. >> and that is such -- >> well said. >> -- a problem for the lawyers. >> it is. >> you have a guy who is a client who has told evangelicals that he's never had to ask for god's forgiveness because he's never done anything wrong. so you have a guy with that mindset going into a case, and the first thing, as claire says, that you want to do, say, yeah, the client made mistakes. we understand that. but even understanding all of

that, and trump, as claire said, she knows better than any of us, when you have a client that doesn't allow you to do that, you're just setting yourself up for failure. >> there is that. there is also the classified documents case against donald trump. newly unsealed transcripts reveal a high-level trump white house staffer warned trump that he could be indicted if he didn't return the classified documents that he took with him when leaving office. yesterday, nearly 400 pages of investigative documents were partially unsealed by judge aileen cannon. among them, fbi interviews with someone known only as person 16. who, quote, had free access to trump and the oval office and was regularlyregularly briefed national security matters. this person told agents that as president, trump never issued the standing order to declassify all documents, as he now claims to have done.

the first time person 16 even heard of such an order was in 2022, after the documents had already been seized from trump's florida home. person 16 also told the fbi they met with trump multiple times after he left the white house. in november of 2021, warned him, quote, whatever you have, give everything back. don't give them a noble reason to intitle you, because they will. trump allegedly gave person 16 the impression that he would return the documents, which he did not, before their conversation was interrupted by a, quote, mar-a-lago club member and a much younger woman who wanted to have her picture taken with trump. also, in the newly unsealed documents, trump promised his valet, walt nauta, a pardon if he was charged with lying to the fbi. in their interview with the fbi,

person 16 told agents that before trump was indicted, nauta was told by trump there wouldn't be any charges brought, saying the investigation was much to do about nothing and that nauta was told even if he gets charged with lying to the fbi, trump would pardon him in 2024. >> claire, this is the case. >> geez. >> this seems to be the strongest case. >> the clearest. >> the clearest case against donald trump. unfortunately, there is a judge who has just put out one bizarre ruling after another and is doing her best, it seems, to slow walk this. >> yeah. i'm obviously very concerned about this judge, and i think people who have watched her rulings carefully have a really good reason to scratch their head and think, what is she doing? why is she doing this?

it is not helping, the rulings she's made. she clearly is fine with this case happening after the election. she clearly is going to do that. now, the only thing that worries me is does she go ahead and let the case come up, then does she swear a jury in and dismiss the case? then, of course, it is game over, regardless of whether he wins or not. that is a fear i also have and i think some other lawyers i've spoken with share that same fear. it's a strong case, joe. it's a strong case by the book. he clearly wanted to keep the records, for god knows why, and he clearly has -- the evidence is overwhelming. but, on the other hand, it doesn't seem to be -- i kind of changed my mind about this after listening to the opening statements yesterday, after reading them, i should say, because i didn't get to listen to them. i really think, in many ways, the narrative of the new york case, in some ways, is more

compelling in terms of damaging trump to voters than even the records case. >> mike barnicle, going back to mar-a-lago for a minute, if you look at these -- what was reported in "the new york times," unsealed, about the associate telling donald trump that he has to return the documents, it is interesting but totally unsurprising. because we know this case is not just about donald trump's taking boxes and boxes of documents with him, storing them in places like the bathroom at mar-a-lago, but his ongoing obstruction of their return. after the national archives asked again and again and again, and, finally, the fbi had to exercise a search warrant to get them back. also in this unsealed document, we see that one of the aides, having no luck convincing donald trump return them, going to his children, unnamed, could be don jr., eric, ivanka, we don't know, and saying, "you have to get your dad to return the boxes. this is bad. ". >> apparently, he did not do that because he didn't return the boxes. i'm going to parrot what claire

was just talking about. she was talking about this trial that's ongoing now. we may have all been wrong about this trial, indicating from the beginning, why is alvin bragg bringing this? it is getting in the way of more important cases. this is a truly important case. reading the transcripts last night of the trial, the opening statement, as claire eluded to earlier, it may well have been authored, co-authored by donald trump. i mean, his defense attorney referring to him as president trump. everything in that statement was not a setup for a really good defense. again, claire pointed this out, if you're a really good defense lawyer, you're going to try and make your client human. sure, he made a lot of mistakes. he is a busy guy. he has a lot on his mind cht he was president of the united states, dealing with this, dealing with that. fine, there's a slippage here. he may have made an accounting error or whatever. you have to set him up for being human. he is not set up for being

human. he is being set up for being donald j. trump. please do everything that mr. trump asks you to do. that's what his defense attorneys are doing now. i think it is going to hurt him, and it doesn't bode well for future cases that are going to come down the line. thank god at least, finally, we have him in a court of law. now on to politics. voters in pennsylvania will hit the polls today for the battleground state's primary election. all 17 members of the state's congressional delegation are up for re-election. three of them are facing serious challenges in the primary. today's election will also cement the lineup for the high-stakes senate race, as incumbent democratic senator bob casey looks to keep his seat there. joining us from outside a polling location in pittsburgh, pennsylvania, nbc news capitol hill correspondent ali vitali. ali, what are you looking at for today's primary? >> look, you're right to point out that every congressperson in

this state is going to be up for their own sort of first step in re-election, but the one we're looking at closely here is where i am in pittsburgh, a congressional primary that is really becoming a litmus test, not just for the progressive wing of the party against a more moderate choice that would typically vote more in tandem with democrats in congress if she were elected there, but this has also become a microcosm for the larger debate we've seen in congress around the israel and gaza conflict. you have the incumbent in this race, congresswoman summer lee, who is someone who aligned herself in 2022, faing congresswoman patel, a centrist who says lee favors more fringe positions because of votes she's taken, especially recently, including the one over the weekend where she voted for ukraine aid but voted against the tiktok and iran provisions, but also israel aid. i asked her to explain the vote. listen to what she said about

why she voted against aid for israel but also the stakes and the view of this race writ large. watch. >> it's not good enough to send bombs to israel and band-aids to gaza. we need to stop the bombing, stop the bleeding, before we can even do anything else. >> are you surprised that it has become a frame on this race, and is it fair? >> no, i'm not surprised, and, no, it's not fair. they came into my race, my district, before i said a single thing about israel. i had no occasion to talk about israel at the state level. they saw a black, progressive woman who stood for human rights, racial justice, progressive values in western pennsylvania, and they assumed. >> foreign policy decisions, foreign policy votes have direct implications at home. they have a tendency of stoking anti-semitism, islamophoia and hatred. >> are the assumptions true? does it hinge on foreign policy, israel, and gaza? >> it is a big topic.

those are the votes taking place in the house. >> you have two candidates there that i spoke to yesterday who have two fundamentally different views, i think, of the central issues at play here. the reason this has become a litmus test for the israel/gaza conflict writ large, it is fair you see foreign policy roil a house race, especially at the primary level. because this is a historically jewish district, em compassing the squirrel hill neighborhood, it's also felt the sting of anti-semitism. in 2018, this is the tree of life synagogue home, when a gunman gunned down 11 people. this is palpable when you talk to the people in the community. they watch votes that happen on israel closely. it is why we're seeing the incumbent play defense on this issue. >> wow. >> ali, we also talk in the setup about the senate matchup

that we're certainly going to see after the primary contest. bob casey against dave mccormick. my gosh, that is going to be, is it not, if not the most closely watched senate race, certainly one of the most closely watched senate races. >> yeah. >> with real political giants on both sides. >> i think that's absolutely right. i was here with bob casey back in maybe late january/early february, because this is a race where, yeah, technically there is a pprimary, but we know who the candidates will be in the pennsylvania senate race. what senator casey said to me is watch the money that's going to be spent here. not just in the house contests, certainly not just in the senate contests, but in the state for the presidential. this is a state we watched for days back in 2020, waiting to see how mail-in votes were ultimately going to fall. we know then that they fell in favor of president joe biden. without pennsylvania, he would not have been able to win the white house back in 2020. this is a battleground through

and through. all of these races have really keen implications on what happens in november. so much so that down here at the house level, there are conversations about what the role of the uncommitted vote is going to be. someone like summer lee says she respects that. she told me she'll be voting for biden, though this primary is largely over. that is something her opponent has been hitting her on. by supporting the uncommitted movement, it could have implications in the senate contest and the presidential, as well. this state has huge, huge races to watch all the way through november. >> yeah, you can't really overstate it. of course, if donald trump had not once again chosen the wrong republican candidate in the primary with dr. oz, dave mccormick likely would already be a united states senator. >> that is correct. nbc's ali vitali, thank you so much for your reporting this morning. still ahead on "morning joe," we're going to go over what to expect today when the senate takes up the new foreign

aid package passed by house lawmakers. plus, amid the growing tensions in the middle east, our next guest says western governments should stop engaging with iran's regime and focus, instead, on empowering iranians directly. that important conversation is next on "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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welcome back at 32 past the hour. "the new york post" describes our next guest as the man who could have been shah. reza pahlavi was a teenager in the united states when his father relinquished the throne in 1979. iran was transformed into the religious theocracy we see today. reza remains focused on a goal of using non-violence messaging toward igniting a revolution that replaces iran's brutal regime. thank you so much for being on the show this morning. it is good to see you. i want to start by asking for you to describe the status of

the regime in iran as it stands right now, and within that, the support for it or lack thereof by the people of iran. what do you think americans need to understand about the people of iran versus the regime that runs it? >> morning. thank you for having me on your show. i will start by saying that after 40 years, iranian people had the ability to compare where our country was headed and where we are atran should have been td japan of the middle east. instead, we're the north korea of the middle east. it is not because the people have changed. it is not because our natural resources are gone. it is the nature from the regime that, from the beginning, had an ambition to export an ideology at the expense of the iranian nation. rather than being the mindset of prosperity, it has been in a mindset of expansionism. as a result, iranians today who are facing poverty, 60% of

iranians live under the poverty line, have been devalued more than 10,000 times what it was at the time of the revolution. people are queueing for fuel and food. instead, they see billions of dollars spent on missiles and drones that are hitting other countries or helping the russians in their campaign against ukraine, while not a single penny is spent on the people themselves. therefore, they have come to the conclusion that as long as this regime is in place, we will not see or have the opportunities, not just about liberties and freedoms, but also opportunities to grow and prosper. >> mr. pahlavi, there are many in iran who believe with what you're saying, but i'm not sure where the chinks are in the iranian regime. you look at what happened in 2022. there was an emore enormous amount of coverage on the brave iranians who took off their head scarves. people were imprisoned.

500 young people were killed by the regime. those demonstrations have effectively died away. the regime implemented a campaign of fear and beat the demonstration. what makes you confident the regime is on the back foot and looking fragile? >> there are missing elements. people have been fighting this regime for years, demonstration after demonstration in different decades and different generations, leading up to the woman life freedom movement, which was the strongest and most provocative of its kind. but there were some missing elements. you cannot expect people who are completely defenseless and armless to fight an extremely oppressive regime while not a single act of support has been given to them. rather, money has been released to a regime that has been spending it even more on its proxy wars but also in its campaign of repression at home. only that much that you can do as a citizen using non-violent methods to ask for change,

facing a regime that is brutal, without getting an element of support from the outside world. and i must point to the issue that, in fact, most of the movements of, call it liberation or saving yourselves from the racial systems, could not have happened in modern history without the support of the western free world. example, solidarity in poland. example, the anc in south africa. this was not possible without the application of either economic sanctions on those regimes, but also sometimes its support. the two missing ingredients we have had thus far facing this regime has been lack of support from the outside world, which is why i've been calling for a policy of a parallel is of maximum security, economic sanctions on the regime. there is also having maximum support. this is going to be the game-changer. if that decision is made, if finally, key governments realize that it is futile to expect behavior change from a regime

that in its dna cannot be anything other than what it has displayed, the time has come to invest on an alternative. the people of iran themselves are calling for liberation. they have the very same values of the western free world. the regime doesn't have the slightest value for humanity or equality or justice. >> claire mccaskill has the next question. claire? >> yes. sir, as somebody who was very involved in the iranian nuclear agreement under the obama administration, it was controversial from day one. i would love your perspective on iran's nuclear ambitions right now. where do they stand? what impact did walking away from that agreement have on the danger that this regime poses to the world? >> well, as i mentioned earlier, the biggest issue that you have dealing with this kind of regime is a little bit like the gun

with the finger on the trigger, which is the threat. can you trust this regime? does any kind of agreement actually give you the sense of security that they will abide by it? it is a ticking time bomb, and there was not an indefinitely timing on that. the approach about dealing with this regime only on the nuclear issue forgot all the other aspects and role this regime has in regional destability and interference in neighbors' affairs. now, why would this regime use the logic of deterrence that some key, nuclear countries have used in the past? i don't think that people lose sleep at night, knowing france is a nuclear country. it's a democracy. the problem is, when you have dictatorships and totalitarian system that potentially could be armed with such technology. so the threat is the nature of the system itself. i don't think there's any kind of agreement that can give anyone the satisfaction that now we're all right and they'll be good boys and abide by those.

a little time has been wasted. the best trust, and i think this is something the saudis understand, the region understands, that the regime itself is the threat. once the regime disappears, every aspect that has been threatening the region with instability, whether it's the support for the proxies that the regime has, fomenting terrorism, the nuclear threat, a all of this disappears at once. the difference will be a nation that is committed to regional stability and cooperation and togetherness, as opposed to a regime doing the exact opposite. herein lies the alternative. >> eldest son of the late shah of iran, reza pahlavi, thank you very much for your insights this morning. we appreciate it. >> thank you. >> thanks for coming on. coming up, a surprise, new side effect is emerging among some women using popular weight loss drugs. pregnancy. we'll talk to a leading health expert about the fertility

phenomenon. that's next on "morning joe."

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coming out of the time-out, we are tied. >> tied ball game. worst can happen, we go to overtime. murray makes a move.

>> oh! >> what a shot. a fadeaway by jamal murray, a buzzer-beater capping a 20-point comeback for the denver nuggets, lifting them to a 101-99 win over the los angeles lakers. devastating loss to the lakers. they were up big. thought they were evening the series, going back to l.a. now, though, down two games to nothing in the first round of the western conference playoffs. series shifts to l.a. on thursday night. in the eastern conference, another great game. a frantic final minute at madison square garden last night has the knicks leading the sixers two games to none. the knicks gave up an eight-point advantage in the fourth quarter. trailed by five points with just 30 seconds left in regulation. then this happened. >> down five. here's hart, gives it back. lowry got the pick.

chenzo coming out of the pack. great defense by the sixers. gets the prayer of a bounce. two-point game. hits the deck. shot clock is off. no! harden with an offensive rebound. another chance here. he's got it! >> donte, what a scrum that was at the end. that gave them the lead, back-to-back three-pointers, first by brunson, then dante, and they hung no to beat the sixers, 104-101. up two games to none. game three in philadelphia. mike barnicle, somewhere in the crowd, me and 14-year-old george geist in his vintage patrick ewing jersey going bananas. i've been to the garden many times. haven't been to all the great games, but that was as loud -- you could feel the building shaking after dante hit that

shot. >> you could sense it from the clip. >> yankee stadium. >> double-header. >> kids were off school. monday matinee, yankees stadium. did you see this? >> aaron boone? >> didn't say anything. >> can we show it? >> aaron boone was ejected five pitches into the game. started the a's batter was hit by a pitch. boone relayed his disapproval. gets a warning from the home plate umpire. >> you saw him making that call. >> you're not yelling at me. i did what i'm supposed to do. i'm looking for him to get hit by the pitch. do you have anything else to say, you're gone, okay? >> okay, hunter. >> wow. >> we're not going to need a john boy breakdown of that one. we got a clear -- and there you go. aaron is saying, i didn't say anything. >> you're gone! >> aaron is saying, hold on a second, i didn't say a word. >> the umpire gives him a

warning, he said nothing, but a fanielyelled something. the umpire thought it was boone. heard an objection up in the stands, actually. he rushes onto the field to plead his case. animated protest. the umpire later told reporters he thought it came from a player at the far end of the new york bench. it did not. it was from the dugout. boone ejected nevertheless. yankees got blanked, losing to the a's, 2-0. >> hunter windelstat was the umpire. he once threw aaron boone and aaron boone's father out of the same game. long history. as he said after the game, i was going to throw him out anyway. >> they have a little history together. yankees have to start swinging the bats. let's turn to health news. we bring in nbc news medical contributor, our good friend dr. vin gupta. great to have you with us. >> good to be here. >> people are using weight loss

drugs, like ozempic, and women are reporting an unexpected side effect, pregnancy, if you can call it a side effect. an increasing number of women say they have become pregnant after using the medications, despite being on birth control or having a history of fertility issues. can you help us about this one, dr. gupta. >> it sounds unexpected, willie, because this is not what we were thinking was going to happen necessarily, not what we were focused on, but what we know is it is you qualify as being obese, losing weight for women helps better regulate a hormonal balance, can promote ovulation, and increases fertility. that's exactly what we're seeing. we're seeing this anecdotally. studies are tracking it, as well. weight loss is a great thing, a thing and we have long known this for fertility. those are critical things. one other thing we are noticing is that maybe this is impacting

absorption of birth control pills. that's what we are seeing when it comes to food. maybe not seeing absorption of birth control pills as robustly as we would off the medications. it's multifactorial, a lot of things at play. >> an incredible side effect. i wonder if doctors are communicating this to their patients? has to gotten to that level yet? when you away abortion bills -- sorry, birth control pills, is it as the implants as well, the im contraception? >> intrauterine devices, not impacted by it this class of medications, weight loss drugs like wegovy, zepbound, ozempic. to your former question, are are doctors about this? we are just learning more. and what we know right now is that if you're pregnant, if you know you're pregnant, you shouldn't take these medications. we don't have the data yet.

and so if you are pregnant or thinking about becoming pregnant, stop the medications. we don't have enough safety data when it comes to women and pregnancy. that's the main guidance here. we just don't -- right now we are learning in real time. this is just a finding that i think surprised a lot of folks. >> what do you mean by absorption in terms of ozempic, taking ozempic, and another question on ozempic. is it a fad drug instead of saying exercise and watch your diet, go get ozempic? >> you know, okay. that's a great question. right now -- >> that's a hard one. >> it's $1,500 in some cases if you have durable insurance, $1,500 is the list price every month for one of these weight loss drugs. it's lower if you meet an indication. some people are paying dollars if they have, say, type 2 diabetes. but access is a problem for a lot of people. a lot of insurance companies don't cover this. medicare is incrementally

covering it. yes, this has become a celebrity drug and that impacted access, absolutely whchlt it comes to absorption, it actually delays stomach emptying. if you eat food, it makes you feel full. taking medications orally, may not leave your stomach, go through the absorption process as quickly. that's what's happening here. >> objectively good thing for so many struggling with obesity and weight loss a long time. i want to ask about another story, doctor. the epa's ruling on pfas, harmful chemicals. let's explain what they are and what was the ruling? >> so these are pfafs, chemicals that exist everywhere. they are in non-stick cooking pans, they are in coated floss, dental floss, they are in a range of products in sporting

wear. everywhere. plastics of all kinds. we have realized these chemical constituents, when they break down, they go into the water supply, all the types of foods we eat, directly to the soil. what we are learning unfortunately it's in every human being in the united states, probably across the world, correlated with metabolic disorders, cancer, you name it. the epa did, it's been long overdue, critically important, reduce the level of pfafs in the water supply. public water utilities, the water is some of the safest in the country. 10% of water utilities in the country have high levels of pfafs. this combats that. this penalizes polluters. that's critical for public health and something we need to talk more about. >> get a water filter. what else do you recommend people do? >> water filter. if you can't afford it, reverse osmosis water filter is

critical. the filters you attach to the faucet don't do enough. talk to the water utility. most are thinking about this now the epa mandating limits on pfafs. really critical. avoid nonstick cook wear. very important. some things to minimize the day-to-day exposure. dr. gupta, thank you. still ahead, donald trump's hush-money trial resumes a short time from now with david peck ter set to return to the washington nationals stand. first a hearing on whether the former president has repeatedly violated his gag order. what will happen if he is found do have done that. "morning joe's" coming right back. 's" coming right back

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major plays in a sports game. giving millions of fans, like my dad and me, new ways of catching up on their favorite sport. still ahead on "morning joe," president biden will be on the campaign trail today in donald trump's home state while the former president is in court in new york. we'll go through that contrast. plus, the nbc joins us with with the possible financial fallout for columbia university following on campus protests there. we're back in two minutes. bit . [ metal groans] sure, i can hold. ♪ liberty liberty liberty liberty ♪ in theaters now.

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purely democrat area. it's very unfair situation. >> donald trump may have violated the gag order in his hush-money trial yet again yesterday during a radio interview, complaining about the jury. we'll get expert legal analysis on that. and yesterday's opening statements and first witness. plus, we'll go through the newly unsealed transcripts in the classified documents case which shows a former white house staffer tried to warn trump about the legal issues he could face. you know, if he stole classified documents. and another day where trump is in court and president biden is on the campaign trail. this time in trump's home state. we'll preview the president's speech in tampa, florida. good morning, welcome to "morning joe." it's tuesday, april 23rd. along with joe, willie and me, we have u.s. personal

correspondent for bbc katty kay and editor for politics at politico sam stein doing a little way too early duty. >> of course he is. >> he is the great, the legendary sam stein. >> thank you. >> very excited, sam. despite the fact that we are fielding a double a-team, the red sox are doing pretty well right now. >> better than the dodgers. >> better record than the dodgers, exactly. and matters more now because it's april. but anyway, willie -- >> just go to willie for the top story. willie. >> because the red sox didn't play last night, mika and i got to how many episodes? >> we binged. we saw four, maybe. >> it's called "palm royale." >> so good. >> incredible. >> wait, you guys, so good. >> so, willie, you --

>> she is so talent. >> amazing. >> she is amazing. >> willie, you interviewed -- >> my god. she goes, you failed. you failed. >> so you interviewed, willie, carol burnett, the legend of all legends. >> yes. and i never thought i would say this, but there was a scene where kristen wiig and carol burnett were going back and forth. >> yeah. she is just going -- >> and middle of the week and i looked at each osh. i was like, my god. like, yeah, she can go -- >> they are spirit animals. >> she can go, like, toe-to-toe with one of the greatest of all time and it was just such a pleasure to watch. in fact, the whole crew, everything. it was amazing. >> yeah, it is such a beautiful splashy show. it's palm beach in 1969. the sets. the houses. the costumes.

snooty people hanging out at country clubs trying to crack into society. it's exciting. carol burnett, let's say she starts the series in a coma, which when i interviewed her she said was the best gig she ever had. she would go to hair and makeup and lie and sleep all day and got a check at the end of it. we won't give away too much. they are incredible together. looks good, too. it's a great show. >> there is so many great actors in in here. at one point, carol burnett, while not talking, is -- i mean, nice little throwback. but, yeah, katty kay, you, obviously, have seen it. i would just say, one or two snooty reviews saying, oh, this couldn't happen, that couldn't happen. they don't know palm beach. i thought it was an extraordinary send up of palm beach. >> first of all, the fashion. amazing fun.

i wish we still dressed like they did. the bit parts, the husband, the pool boys are great. i love the way you realize for all of the glamour and the glitz, it's all about secrets. everybody has secrets and they are all trying to be somebody they are not actually. i think that's what is so genius. you are right. i completely bing watched it. it comes out on wednesdays. i wait for wednesday. >> we are waiting for wednesday. >> that's my life. waiting for wednesday. >> of course, josh lucas was on earlier. >> i know. >> we have to get more of them on. yrjts. >> this was a nice break from donald trump in court. donald trump in court. donald trump in court. willie, donald trump was in court again yesterday. i think he fell asleep again? >> i think he did. three shout-outs. laura dern, alison jany, ricky martin. >> come on! >> incredible in the show. >> yes, yes. >> i mean, all three of them just great. and bruce -- i mean, we could go

down the list. i will say they are all extraordinary. i will say that mika and i turned to each other. i have always -- i just loved kristen wiig. she is extraordinary on "snl." extraordinary in whatever she does. but we lacked at each other after it was over and said -- >> next level. >> yeah. >> she is going next level. this is, yeah, extraordinary. >> she has taken to the next level. palm royal, check it out. speaking of south florida, donald trump works there, i was making a segue. doesn't work. >> there was a -- >> talking like you are in a coma. >> there is a reference there, too. at one point when alison says, she looked at the mobster husband and says, this is where we're going. this is where common criminals -- this is where we're

going in the future, in palm beach. >> it was good. >> yeah. >> so there is your segue. >> okay. >> there you go. so donald trump's hush money criminal trial will resume today in a new york city courtroom after a busy day yesterday where both sides delivered opening statements and the prosecution called its first witness. in their opening, the prosecution and defense painted two very different pictures of the former president. prosecutors describing him as having been involved in years of sordid business dealings. they called him a co-conspirator in a plot to cover up sex scandals in a catch and kill flan during the 2016 presidential election. they said trump's actions amount to criminal conspiracy and cover-up by scheming with his then lawyer michael cohen and david pecker the publisher of "the national enquirer" at the time. they called him a dignified former president and family man,

stressing no crime was committed. the prosecution called pecker as the first witness. the former chair manned and ceo of american media incorporated explained his publications had practiced, quote, checkbook journalism where they paid thousands of dollars for stories. the publications also purchased stories to prevent them from being published by other outlets and bury them. pecker also testified trump met with him after the 2016 election to thank him for being the campaign's, quote, eyes and ears, scooping up information that could be harmful to trump and then reporting it back to michael cohen. pecker is expected to resume his testimony later this morning. let's bring former litigator lisa rubin and former u.s. attorney and msnbc contributor chuck rosenberg. good morning. lisa, you are in the overflow room yesterday. watching all of this, keeping track of donald trump's facial gestures and perhaps nodding off.

what was your big takeaway from yesterday, day one? >> the big takeaway is this is a crime about falsification of business records. yet, what the government seems to have the most evidence of is of the underlying conspiracy. what still is unknown to me is how they are going to prove donald trump's own involvement in the falsification of the business records with which he has been charged. we heard a lot of views of the evidence of the construction of the conspiracy, who was involved in it, who will place donald trump the knowledge and intent to commit election-related crimes. what i didn't hear as much about is how donald trump then directed the cover-up thereafter. there is a 2017 office meeting between donald trump and michael cohen where the prosecution says they cemented the repayment deal. how are they going to prove that? one, through the testimony of

michael cohen. i was looking yesterday to hear how else are they going to prove that? they say they have a photograph of the gentlemen at that meeting. they have invoices, days afterwards and then a couple of days after that the first payment to michael cohen. but i was hoping to hear that they have a lot more than that. somebody who was also at the meeting, who overheard the meeting, who placed some of these documents in front of donald trump, heard his comments about it. i didn't hear that yesterday. i am hoping that we hear prosecutors have a lot more about the back end of the deal as they do -- as much as the front end. >> chuck, what stood out to you yesterday? >> i agree with lisa. i would add one thing. the circumstances also matter. we often talk about there being direct evidence, maybe conversations or photographs or emails of a transaction. but circumstances matter, too, willie. if you walk out of your house and there is snow on the front lawn, what do you think happened last night? it snowed. you may not have seen it and there may be other explanation

why there is snow on your front lawn, maybe somebody put it there, the likely explanation is it snow. lisa, we agree, we talked about this, there are a bunch of circumstances, the timing, the motivation that show that after these conversations and conspiracy formed, certain things happened, including the issuance of checks to michael cohen under the guise of a retainer agreement and false -- and then ledger entries that followed. and so you are going to see, i think, over the course of this trial, willie, direct evidence of the conspiracy and what they agreed to do and circumstantial evidence as well. a judge will tell the jury at the end of the day, both matter. they are both compelling. you can accept circumstantial or direct evidence in deliberating on your verdict so donald trump is calling on supporters to protest outside the courthouse in lower manhattan where his hush-money trial is being held. so far, his base has been a

no-show. and as "the new york times" puts it, the former president is not getting the circus he wanted. the paper reports there were only handful of trump supporters outside yesterday morning and they were outnumbered by the trump detractors who had signs about his alleged affair with an adult film actress. the former president tried to rally his followers with a long post on hi social media site before seven yesterday morning. he posted later the courthouse is completely closed down, which is -- which it is not, suggesting that the poor turnout was a plot against his supporters. i actually, i will go to sam, you first, joe, i mean, i know that there is going to be this hearing before court resumes today about the gag order, and i just wonder, i mean, donald trump wants to be careful about asking people to come and rally. the last time he was pushing people to show up somewhere, there was an insurrection on the capitol and he was saying i'll

meet you there. i don't think he should be telling -- i am not a lawyer, but it seems to me that he might want to just go to court. >> that's who he is. >> and not asking people to show up in his defense. >> after he was inaugust rated as president of the united states, you could go to the white house the next week and usually outside the press room you can see all these different pictures, president with a young child, president with marines saluting, president with this, president with that. donald trump put up pictures of the crowd from angles that made it look like he had more people at his inauguration. >> he likes -- >> yeah. so he is sort of obsessed with this stuff. he told them to congregate peacefully. maybe that's where the misstep was for donald trump, because nobody showed up. and so it's maddening to him. everything seems to be going against him. he is having to sit in this courtroom. i thought it was fascinating last night on fox news, you

actually had fox news hosts complaining that he was too old. he was a 77-year-old man. who would make a 77-year-old man sit down all day? that's what a lot of 77-year-old men do. they sit down all day. they watch the atlanta braves. i know. my dad was one of them. but a lot of people sit down all day. but he's just going crazy and add insult to injury, he is outnumbered by people that are having, you know, his supporters are outnumbered by people that are holding up signs talking about porn stars and time in prison. >> yeah, i mean, he doesn't have sean spice they are time to go out there and tell everyone it's the biggest crowd ever to win a court case. we can see it with our own eyes and ears. there are not that many people out there. some may have to do with the

fact it's taking place in new york city. there are not that many trump supporters there. some of it may have to do with the fact that the last time he urged people to congregate on his behalf was january 6th and certainly we know how that ended up and certainly a lot of people have been arrested for their decision to descend on the capitol. but i can't quite get around the fact -- maybe lisa with address this, the agent of encouraging protests at the courthouse, of asking your supporters to make a spectacle of the court proceedings, to a degree, maybe not in legal terms, seems like an act of attempted intimidation. i wonder if that permeated the courthouse at all, if the judge is aware of this, is there are ramifications or implications for trump for doing things like this? >> i think, sam, that those implications or ramifications sort of pale in comparison to the alleged violations of gag

order that we are going to deal with this morning at 9:30. the d.a. has brought to judge's attention at least ten different instances that they say are trump's statements that violate this gag order. many of them are the same statement with respect to michael cohen. but there is also a statement with respect to the jurors themselves. and in particular, a quotation from a fox news host about democratic activists trying to infiltrate this jury, to throw it against donald trump. that's quite an accusation. putting aside the existence of the gag order, but given the wording of the gag order, even worse. and one thing i want to bring to you and our viewers' attention. in asking for this hearing, they have asked for $1,000 per violation and they've asked the judge to do award what is just and proper in addition. that matters because under the

criminal contempt statute in new york, you have two option. fine someone $1,000 per violation or you can put them in up to 30 days. so in asking the judge to take additional measures to the extent he finds them just and proper, that's the d.a. very subtly saying, if you think he deserves the slammer, now is time, it's in your court. >> i don't want to run too far afield. i promise we will get back to this point. i remember in 2016, opinion page editors had to cut down on the quotes that cowell nists would want to bring into their column from william butler yates the second coming and apply it to donald trump, and especially the line, the best lack all conviction while the worst are full of passionate intensity. and that was, it seemed, very

applicable in 2016, but i actually thought about those lines when i saw trump whining about the fact that basically nobody cares anymore. >> this this isn't even elvis '77. this is like the tour bus has rolled on and people just don't care. i don't see the intensity. i will tell you, i see a lot of exhaustion from people who voted for donald trump in 2016. >> yeah. you see that reflected on the streets of manhattan. you see that reflected in the polls that show us that there is a phenomenal lack of interest in this election at large. the nbc polls seem to show the least interest in 20 years. i don't think this is going to be another situation where donald trump drives out massive turnout like he did in 2016, like he did against him in 2018, like he did in 2020.

that's the argument of the trump campaign, whether you love him or hate him, trump drives people to the polls and manages to find new voters to come to the polls, which is how he squeekd out the win in 2016. if that's the model in 2024. it doesn't seem to be there. we look with our eyes, hear it from our friends, you talk to people who say they are exhausted. i don't know anyone that isn't already exhausted and we have another six months to if of the election and another however many six weeks or so of this court hearing to report on. but, chuck, let me ask a question about the prosecution's strategy as you saw it laid out yesterday. there seems to be this focus on election interference, so the election interference is behind this, and yet that's not actually what trump is charged with in this case, unlike in georgia or january 6th or the documents. it's not -- those cases are election related.

is that a risky strategy for the prosecution to troy to throw that in there? will it complicate things for the jurors? >> i think it helps explain things if done properly. you are absolutely right, that mr. trump isn't charged with election interference. he is charged with the falsification of records. there is an could text to do this, a story to this, and it's a logical and linear one and the government is trying to tell it chronologically. the reason that you end up with falsified records is because there was a plot, a conspiracy, a scheme to try to suppress what stormy daniels and karen mcdougal and others had to say about their lee azblauns with mr. trump and that set off a chain of events, payments to michael cohen disguised as retainers when, in fact, he was really just a pass-through to get about money to these women to keep them quiet. so in the context of a trial, and i think context matters, you

want to tell a jury why it happened. you don't have to prove motive. but if you can prove motive, it makes it a much more powerful case. look, to your question about whether or not this is risky, trials are always risky. the government has a huge burden. they have to prove their case by proof beyond a reasonable doubt to a unanimous jury. there is always some risk. if you can explain why things happened and tell it in a chronological fashion, i actually think that makes a more compelling story for a jury. one that is easier for them to latch on to and to follow. coming up, president biden will be in florida today putting a bright spotlight on state's abortion ban. how that issue is playing out on the campaign trail. that's next on "morning joe."

president biden travels to florida today to deliver remarks highlighting efforts by democrats to safeguard abortion

access and casting former president donald trump as a threat to reproductive rights. the president will forcefully advocate for reproductive freedom and call out donald trump's abortion ban as he has been doing since row was overturned, according to a campaign spoke man. the biden campaign has been emphasizing what it sees as a potential path to victory in the state that was captured by trump in 2016 and 2020. biden's visit comes days before a six-week abortion ban in the state takes effect. >> popular ban. let's bring in ceo jim dicini. 2012 re-election campaign, you know, jim, it's very easy to look at florida and say it's out of reach if you look at all of the republicans that have moved to the state. you look at the -- >> it's trump country. >> the numbers have really gone up.

that being said, we always have to remember andy beshear won the state of kentucky, a pro-choice referendum, won the state of kentucky. andy beshear won, i think, in part, because of an extraordinary ad of of a young woman raped and forced to carry her child to term. i am curious what your thoughts are about joe biden going to florida. is he wasting his time? >> no, i don't think so. i will never try to lecture joe scarsborough about florida, but it is about a national issue and he is driving this across the country. we were talking backstage about this is the issue that joe biden needs to continue to drive down and tell the kind of stories that bashir told, talking about why this is so important and that will drive the numbers across the battleground states. when you look at the contrast, run amateurs, you want contrast. and the contrast between donald

trump sitting it in a courtroom every day saying crazy things and joe biden talking about this unbelievable effort to take away your fundamental rights, that's not just a florida issue. that's an all seven battleground states issue. we will see whether florida is a battleground state in 197 days. it doesn't matter. you want the contrast and florida's a great place to do it as their supreme court looks at another one of these crazy six-week bans. >> you know, a couple months ago we were talking about bedwetters in the democratic party, even during that time, the biden white house was, like, yawning, eh, whatever. we've got a theory of the case that will work out. the trends of recent polls, it seems like they may have been on to something. the latest marist college poll follows up on an nbc news poll that kwhoes when you put robert kentucky jr., coronet west and jill stein it, biden leads. five points over donald trump.

it's within the margin of error, up from a two-point lead biden held earlier this month. what i always say is, this early, it's not about the bottom line. it's about trend lines. talk about the trend lines you have been seeing. >> yeah, look, in the '23 polls in the past month, biden leads in ten, trump leads in eight and five are tied. when you go to d.c., there is panic in the streets of d.c. because democrats are like the polls are terrible. no. look at the trend lines. look how things are getting berle. and that's what you really want to see right now. you want to see numbers continue to move and you want to see who rfk is taking votes from. because when you look at the models, the thing you can't figure out, why i don't really trust the polls, who the third-party is taking votes from and to joe's point it looks like he is taking more votes from trump which makes sense. it's unlikely the democrats want to vote for an anti-choice, anti-vaxxer in the middle of this.

it makes sense that there will be more trump voters that look at rfk than biden voters. those are the trend lines we are going to be watching the next 198 days. >> jim, you have always been bullish while others are wetting the political bed over course of this campaign with the release of every new swing state poll. and the theory of the case has been we are going to go out into the states, we are to rail against these abortion laws, talk about the economic data being strong while we still need to drive down inflation. he is going to talk about the things he has done as president while donald trump is is sitting in a courtroom and you are reminded that he allegedly paid off a porn star after having an appear with him, interfered with an election, took classified documents. is that what we're watching finally right now? is this what the biden campaign has been talking about all along? >> yes, the biden campaign and political team is the most underrated team around. people want to give them grief. they have had a theory of the case and it's starting to work.

the contrast, we talk about contrast, in political campaigns you have to have the contrast and there is no better contrast to the president doing his job and donald trump sitting in a courthouse every day saying crazy things. part of the problem has been voters forgot about the bad trump. the trump they didn't like, because they didn't see him, right, for two years. they are not on truth social. they don't see the crazy things he is saying every day. now they are starting to and they are saying, oh, that's the guy i didn't like. >> you know, sam stein is interesting, and i will go to jim next, very interesting how the cases have lined up. like a lot of legal people, i am not saying i am a legal person, but i listen to them, they come on my show, i take copious notes. i think this manhattan case is the weakest of the cases by far. i would never have brought it. i think it's the weakest case. i think the strongest case is the documents case. but the way things are lined up,

and again it's just the way things are lined up, there is no -- joe biden has nothing to do with any of this, though those walking through the fevered swamps of other networks say he does, but this is, i think, the weakest legal case, but politically it's probably the strongest case because politically this is something people can put their arms around, hush-money payments, porn stars, michael cohen. you've got all of it this chaos going on. for the people that when i am saying they are exhausted, for people who are exhausted, they are not going to be following this day in, day out, but they will look up and go, oh, that guy. maybe i'll just not vote or maybe i'll vote for rfk. again, i think it's a weak case legally. i think politically, though, it would be the last case he would want to start with. >> you're saying you would rather not be in a hush-money

trial with -- involving an affair with a porn star in your presidential campaign? >> if i were running for president, yes. i would rather argue about presidential records act, even though i think he is guilty of that one. >> you know, yes. i do agree. i think the one kind of weird caveat here is, you know, we went through this in 2016, not, obviously, this specific b but the "access hollywood" tape comes to mind. it's like in that moment, everyone was just, like, the bottom had fallen out, this was done. and we just, obviously, didn't know what we didn't know and people rallied behind trump enough and people were disaffected with hillary clinton that it worked for him. i don't think this is historical parallel. to a degree, you are right. one, it reminds people of the chaos of the show that surrounds

him and biden, for all his flaws, gets to go out there and do traditional generic political speeches, which helps with the contrast that he wants to create. second thing, it ties trump up in a courthouse at a time he needs to be doing a few things. one is campaigning. the other is raising money. he has a cash disadvantage. i guess this is what i would ask jim about, like, you know, money is the biggest currency on campaigns, but currency, little currency, also matters. and how does this just affect the campaign itself from the inability to have a candidate get out on the road, do these events? he is tied in new york four days a week he can do radio interviews, something on wednesday and the weekends. but that logistically has to be extremely difficult, right? >> it is, sam. the one thing you can't go get more of in a campaign is time. you can go get more money, get a new message, do lots of things, but you cannot go get more time.

and he knows that. that's why he is lashing out. he is sitting in this courtroom day after day while his opponent is out there talking to voters. and so that waste of time we only have 198 days here. and every day he is sitting in the courthouse, that's the contrast. you and joe said the magic word, the word chaos. voters look at this chaos and say do we really want four more years of this every day, this kind of thing? it's not about porn stars or hush money. it really is about reminding voters of the chaos that was the trump four years and why they don't want it again. that's the contrast that is driving donald trump crazy. coming up, our next guest says there is a simple formula for financial security. author and professor scott galloway joins us with the algebra of wealth. i was never good at al guess bra. that's fweks on "morning joe." s bra. that's fweks on "morning joe." arthritis pain relief gel, which penetrates deep to target the source of pain

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it's a busy week on wall street with a number of earnings reports due from several tech giants. tesla kicks it off amid troubling news of layoffs, price cuts and recalls. google, meta and microsoft will follow and face pressure to deliver amid a recent market sell-off. joining us now professor of marketer at the nyu stern school of business, scott galloway, out with a new book entitled the alison brie a simple formula for financial security. do you have to be good at algebra? >> no. >> thank god. >> what if you had to take it two are to three times? that's a problem, right? >> you would be a host of "morning joe" if you had to do that. >> oh! i knew it! >> scott, we will get to the book. it's going be a long and winding road to get to the book. there are things -- i am a big fan of yours. there are things i want to talk about. one of my pet peeves seems to be one of your pet peeves.

that is, 2 million people have been killed in the sudan civil war. mossad killed 500 arabs. i didn't see colleges burned down. 500,000 arabs killed by assad. saddam hussein killed over wars, i didn't see protests there. yet your school is shut down because israel is responding to the worst attack against jews worldwide since the holocaust. help us sort through that. >> we can debate that response, but -- >> again, i don't know. i don't know algebra but i'm good at the common denominators here and there is no common denominators in all of these. it's just that it's jews defending their homeland, because if you look at the numbers, even with american wars, they don't add up. >> no. good to be with you.

especially appreciate your leadership on this issue. some more numbers, 2,200 american servicemen killed at pearl harbor. we kill 3.5 million japanese, 100,000 in one night, 2,800 americans in 9/11, we kill 400,000 people in afghanistan and iraq. we weren't accused of genocide. you had, if mexico had elected a jihadist cartel to run the country and incurred into texas and on a per capita basis killed 35,000 with a population of the university of texas and took the freshman class at smu hostage and hid them under tunnels, it would be the great radioactive parking lot. jews are not allowed and israel are not allowed to prosecute a war. they are prosecute a war more humanely than we have. the ratio of combatants to civilians, civilian death to combatant more tally lower than mosul, japan, and germany.

there is a different standard for jews in israel when it comes to prosecuting a war. they are allowed to fight back to a truce. unlike america or any other western country, they are not allowed to win a war. it's a double standard. >> we prom it's we will get to your book. we are going to do that. again, mika and i a little skittish because the word algebra is in there. >> i just got triggered. >> we will talk about the book. i am also going to ask scott to explain how the entire process is -- and he is a capitalist like me, except he has a lot of money. how the process is rigged to help the richest americans. hi, i'm janice, and i lost 172 pounds on golo. when i was a teenager i had some severe trauma in my life and i turned to food for comfort. a friend told me that i was the only one holding me back from being as beautiful on the outside as i am the inside. once i saw golo was working, i felt this rush,

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we're back. pro professor of marketing at the nyu stearns school of business, scott galloway, "the

algebra of wealth, a simple formula for financial security. seems simple to me. >> we are talking about everything but his book. let's get into the book. first, run through, i have seen you talking about this in speeches, talk about how the system is rigged. so if you got $1 million, great. you got 5 million, 10 million, even better. life gets easier because the way our tax system is set up. >> yeah. we have a very progressive tax system until you get to the 99th percent. the people most damaged, lower/middle income tax households. the people that get hurt are the workhorses. they are people who make an exceptionally good living, current income, live in a blue state, paying 50, to 54% tax rate. i bet some of those people are around this table. if you invest in assets, stocks, housing, then your tax rate

plummets. so in america we decided to try to create a super class of billionaires. if they win the gold medal, we get the silver and bronze. capital gains and mortgage interest, biggest gains. who owns stocks? people my age. who doesn't, young people. so we decided that the wealthiest people in the world should get exceptionally more wealth. minimum wage, second nine, 25, stock market is up. the average 72-year-old is 7 #% wealthier. under 40 years old, 20% let wealthy. we are transferring more wealth from the poor and middle class and upper class to super rich and from young to old. >> and you say in the book, which is true and alarming, but a 30-year-old american in america right now is doing no better than his or her parents. that's a new thing in american history, that you would think over time, you know, we want to

do better than the next generation. that's not happening anymore? >> it ties into what we were talking about on campuses. for the first time in, a 30-year-old man or woman isn't doing as well as their parents at 30. that is the social compact breaking down. 30 to 34, 6 #% in 1990 one child, now 27%. people opting out of america. they are not having kids. young people aren't having sex, not meeting, not mating. the pool of emotionally and economically viable men shrinks every day, which lessens household formation. we have a real issue. young people are enraged. it turns every movement into an opportunistic infection because they are just pissed off. they look up. they see wealth exceptional wealth across my generation of people in certain industries and they are really struggling. their purchasing power is going down.

scarcity on campus, we take pride in rejecting 9% of applicants. the degrees go up in value. very concerned with housing and traffic. housing permits are sequestered from young people. housing prices have gone from 290 to 420 the last four years. so a young person, a house, stocks that i don't own, skyrocket in value, let's have covid relief and flush the markets and take assets way up because of the million people dying would be bad, would be tragic if i got less wealthy and we are doing it on their credit card. young people have every reason to be enraged. they look up, he this get angry and see someone doing better than them. every day it's speedballed in their face that they are failing, not doing as well as everyone around them. we have lost the our kids are more anxious and depressed and obese and addicted. we have made a purposeful decision to let this happen by making sure people stay wealthy

at the cost of young people. >> the social elements that you mentioned, the anxiety, all of those things, that kids aren't getting together anymore, that they're not having kids, what happened in one generation? social media has to play a role, i'm sure, but what else do you see that has created this climate for this generation? >> we have the most talented people in the world and companies trying to convince a young man that he can have a reasonable facsimile of life in his basement. you don't need to go through the rejection and expense and humiliation of working out and having a plan and humor and showering to get a romantic relationship. you have uporn. we have young men at home sequestering from society. there's a reason romantic companies are two hours and not

15 minutes. true victory in life is hard. going out, meeting someone is hard. but that's what victory in real life is like. because a lot of men feel rejected on dating apps, the number of jobs that are accessible has gone down, off group of young men who want a low-risk entry into life. when they don't have the prospect of a romantic relationship, they're more prone to conspiracy theories. some become really bad citizens. we are producing too many of the most dangerous person in the world. that is a young, broke and lonely young man. >> why is it that so many of these young people that you're talking about seem to head into life after going to four-year or two-year schools or whatever, head into life with a lack of financial literacy? all they know is the absence of

money. >> i think we need to have in our curriculums in high school a class on adulting. my kid can do calculus, but he doesn't understand the interest on his credit card. there's some basic financial literacy we're not teaching. when you start replacing civics with computer science, you lose a sense of the country and you start learning about programming. when you don't talk about basic financial literacy or even mating, i would like to see a class in a mating dynamics. at exactly the wrong time in a young girl's life, she is presented with a valuation where she never gets to leave the high school cafeteria. we just don't have basic skills

for young people. we're teaching them advanced things, but not what a mortgage or an interest rate means. coming up, vladimir putin is coming to broadway. a new play tracks his rise to power after the fall of the soviet union. actor will keen plays the russian president and he'll join the table straight ahead on "morning joe." the table straigh "morning joe." everyone. baby: liberty. oh! baby: liberty. how many people did you tell? only pay for what you need. jingle: ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ baby: ♪ liberty. ♪

coming up, the latest from lower manhattan where donald trump is on criminal trial. a preview of the testimony from a key witness, the publisher of the "national enquirer." publis the "national enquirer."

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trials are a lot of procedural [ bleep ] and side conferences and exhibit 37/2a. look, the one person who's had the most normal reaction to the

trial so far is donald trump. >> donald trump fell asleep on multiple days during his criminal trial. >> as he should! [ laughter ] >> i mean, he's been up since 2:00 a.m. rage tweeting. he needs his anger sleep. welcome to the fourth hour of "morning joe." in just minutes, the judge in donald trump's hush money criminal trial will hold a hearing to determine if the former president violated his gag order. after that, the trial will resume with david pecker set to return to the witness stand, the prosecution's first witness called yesterday right after opening statements concluded. the judge is moving this along quickly. >> you look at the front page of the "wall street journal."

it has an extraordinary picture and headline "trump's hush money trial kicks off". >> yeah. new york daily news "fraud pure and simple." >> all right. yeah, a lot of the headlines probably not helpful to donald trump's mood, especially the drudge report. if you scroll through it, there's a lot of negative stories about trump, trump's demeanor. the bottom line is, when we talk about trump losing control of the narrative, we're not just talking about the fact that he has to sit in court and try not to fall asleep or when he stands up, he's told to sit down by the judge, actual lack of control physically, but he can't really control the narrative with competing narratives constantly

coming out of the prosecution and the defense discussions during the whole trial. >> fox news host last night said it's not right having a guy who's almost 78 years old -- his words, not mine -- having to sit down all day. >> can you believe it? >> so a suggestion of frailty, i guess, creeping in there by some of his supporters that he's just too frail and old to be expected to sit down for six hours at a time. >> that's the narrative they have about president biden. now they're using it to describe how unfair this trial is to donald trump. has there been another moment when donald trump is expected to sit and be quiet and listen? the answer is no. let's bring in joyce vance and john heilemann, mike barnicle as

well. good morning. joyce, let's take this in order. a short time from now there will be that hearing on the gag order on whether former president trump violated it when he goes outside the courtroom and talks about witnesses like he did yesterday and in his truth social posts. if he is found to have violated the gag order, what might happen to him? >> there's a statute that gives the judge options here. if he finds the gag order was violated, he can either impose a fine of up to $1,000 or a jail time of up to 30 days. those are the only options on the table. the real problem here -- and this is something that was always inevitable from the moment this case was indicted, is how the judge will handle this. trump has, in essence, been

goading him, almost begging him to put him in jail, because trump will have reasons that perhaps will not make that palatable but will make it politically advantageous for him. he will use it to fund raise. the can enforce the gag order or be exposed as having no teeth. they engage in progressive discipline. we might see fines today. that's something the d.a. has suggested would be appropriate. a lot of people might fight that to not be enough. that gives the judge the opportunity to say, if you do it again, you will face custody. at that point, any sort of punishment the judge gives will look appropriate to either

public opinion. the judge will be ordering something necessary to his gag order. in other words, if a fine doesn't work, the judge has no option other than to impose custody. that would be trump bringing it on himself. >> joyce, let me read you a bit of the "wall street journal" editorial page on donald trump testing his gag order. lawyers and political advisors to donald trump spent years trying to convince mr. trump to hold his tongue for his own good. the new york judge juan merchan didn't have any better luck as he seeks to provide some judicial decorumdecorum. they say there's a reason to protect the jury, but is there really any reason to shield michael cohen, a guy who has no

problems going out on television and criticizing donald trump? should this gag order be limited more to the jury? >> it's an interesting question, joe. something that the defense could have done here and doesn't seem to have been interested in doing, they could have asked that the gag order applies to everyone. as written, it only applies to donald trump. if you're the defense, a logical strategy might have been to say what's good for the goose is good for the gander. this should apply to witnesses. michael cohen shouldn't be able to make statements think about defendant in public. they have not asked for that. that's a little bit of a curiosity here. it's important in my view as a former prosecutor to protect all participants in a trial. donald trump is cloaked in the

presumption of innocence until this jury rules. it's critically important that he get the same protection every other criminal defendant would get. >> agreed. john heilemann, claire mccaskill noted earlier that while legal scholars have viewed for quite some time this manhattan case to be the weakest legally, she says politically it probably will pack the biggest punch for a couple reasons, first of all, just because of what undecided voters are going to be seeing and hearing about a porn star, hush money payments and everything that goes along with that. secondly, more importantly, donald trump is not a client who allows lawyers to do what lawyers do. ladies and gentlemen of the

jury, he is far from perfect and then explain you're going to hear this about him and this about him. that's fine. for argument's sake, take all that on board. even if that's the case, look over here. the statute does not apply in this case and you go down the list. every lawyer does it. especially if they have an opportunity if they're the defendant they go here are the weaknesses of the case. here's what the defendant has done. it is what it is, but it doesn't mean he or she is guilty. trump only allows his lawyers to say how great and perfect he is. well, it puts donald trump, i think, in far greater legal danger. >> yeah. >> what do you say, john? >> i enjoyed mika's knowing nod

there when you said you're not perfect. [ laughter ] >> asked and answered! >> he is perfect. >> exactly. the question answers itself. >> i'd also say one thing about trump and his misery in that courtroom, they don't let food or drink into that court and the man famously drinks about 12 diet cokes a day. you wonder why he's falling asleep. he's an older gentleman. the uncomfortable seat, he's not on his gold throne and he can't get the caffeine. that's the man having a serious, serious caffeine crash every day in court.

i think claire is right. this is going to be the most politically consequential case because it's the only case we're going to get to see before the election. if you laid this case beside the classified documents case, who knows which is most politically consequential? this is the one we're going to see. what we've seen over the last couple days is the power of what happens in a courtroom when you get in that space, to see the case laid out this way in front of donald trump, i don't know whether it's going to move a lot of undecided voters who maybe

have priced a lot of this stuff into the stock with donald trump. they already think, yeah, porn stars, he did all this stuff. we know that already. tell us something new. >> i think the thing we're looking at in wisconsin, michigan, pennsylvania -- i'm guiding the conversation to help move things along. that's what i do. it's not so much, oh my god, donald trump is not perfect. it is the exhaustion that is setting in among undecided voters. >> i think that's right, joe. given how amnesiac the country is -- and it's one of the things biden has been doing is running these commercials on social media to say this is what it was like four years ago when donald

trump was president. this is a very vivid reminder on what it would be like to go to that environment again. there are a lot of people who are not fired up about this election. that is a problem for donald trump given the way he's been able to perform in 2016 and 2020. without that, he's got problems. >> back to the gag order, how does it work? is the jury present? >> so the jury won't be present for this. this will just be the judge ruling on the gag order outside the presence of the jury. in fact, one of the real risks here is that if trump is jailed or fined, the judge will want to make sure the jury doesn't learn about that, because donald trump's lawyers could argue on appeal if there are convections,

that that fact could be prejudicial. he wanted that jury sworn in and instructed to avoid any outside news and influence. he also needed to delay in order to give donald trump under the rules time to prepare his defense. a lot of this is about keeping it away from the jury while this gag order proceeding is in process. >> the hearing starts in just about 15 minutes. >> i'm listening to sister-in-law. >> i love the sisters- in-law podcast. let's move to what's happening on capitol hill today. the senate is expected to begin procedural votes on the $95 billion foreign aid package passed by the house on saturday. senate leaders are looking to speed up final passage of the

package, which includes aid to ukraine, israel and taiwan. a final vote is expected before tomorrow night. if and when the bill heads to the president's desk, he's expected to announce at the same time another large package of aid for ukraine that could total over a billion dollars. >> it's really pretty remarkabl pick this up and pass it. obviously a lot of people in the trenches in ukraine that are trying to push back against a russian invasion, they need this to survive the next several weeks. >> another attack on dnipro just in the last few hours. every day russia is attacking

population centers and killing civilians. this comes at a more desperate time for ukraine. joining me senator michael bennett of colorado. are you confident this now moves through the senate when it got through that long process in the house? >> thanks for having me back. we've talked about this so many times over the last six or eight months on this program. for the first time, willie, i can say i'm confident this is going to get through the senate, that the united states is going to fulfill our mandate as leading democracy in the world to support not just ukraine's fight for democracy but frankly the entire western world's fight against putin and xi. this is actually a great day in american history for democracy and obviously a great day for the ukrainian people, who have

earned the support of the world. >> i know it's not your chamber, but i'm curious what you make of just in the last week or so speaker johnson really changing his tenor and his tone and approach to all of this and just saying the maga extremists who wanted to kick me out of my job, go ahead, we're going to get this funding to ukraine. even former president trump, when given some bait yesterday to attack speaker johnson, said, well, he's got a tough job. he's a good guy. i understand why this was a hard thing for him. what do you make of that flip? why did speaker johnson come around in the end? >> i hope that he realized that probably your average american couldn't pick out a speaker from the line-up in american history, but that he would be remembered very poorly if he was the guy that lost ukraine. i do think this is also a very important moment when we are standing up against the

isolationists in the republican party, the so-called america firsters that are aligned with donald trump. we remember those guys who call ed -- disgraced themselves on the pages of history back then. they disgraced themselves on pages of history again. the speaker is turning his back on that in part because the american people are standing with the ukrainian people, who have shown what it looks like to be willing to die for democracy. >> nazi sympathizers talked about being america firsters. do you have any insight into speaker johnson, what caused the

move to a traditional reagan-esque republican or brzezinski worldview? >> i think there are a couple of things. one is that the politics of this were pretty clear. he made a move. i don't want to diminish the political courage it took to stand up to the maga right for speaker johnson, but he basically got behind a bill that was overwhelmingly popular within his own caucus, obviously on the democratic side. in the country, that is a thing that he should have been there all along. again, i don't want to take anything away from him for making the right decision, but the politics of this were pretty clear. i also think he started to realize that maybe the challenge that he faced to his speaker ship by the far-right flank was not as serious as people attributed to it.

there was this notion that, well, if marjorie taylor greene turns on him, he might lose the speakership. i think his judgment of the threat to his tenure shifted a little bit over that time. i wanted to kind of turn the question back to you, senator bennett. i know you're not a republican, but in the long run, is this a cross he's going to end up dying on, speaker johnson? or is it good politics for him in the long run and the republican party if they can get to the place where they see the ukrainian effort the same way you do? >> i think it is good politics for him. as i was leaving the airport on saturday morning on my way back to colorado, i actually saw speaker mccarthy coming through the airport coming the other direction. i was thinking to myself, this

guy was incapable of doing anything that was hard. he was incapable of doing anything that lasted, because he was so terrified of his right wing. john boehner, who i like a lot and think is actually a good guy, looks back at his speakership and says the worst thing he did was not put the immigration bill on the floor for a vote. maybe johnson has shown that you don't have to allow the marjorie taylor greenes of the world to lead this country around by the nose when it comes to fundamental questions of life and death, fundamental questions about how this democracy is going to show up. john, that would be a good thing for america if we were turning the page on that. credit to speaker johnson if that's what's happened. i also want to say that president biden has led extremely well, extremely

resolutely from the day that putin invaded ukraine to begin with, from the day that the ukrainians were basically fighting putin off with their bare hands. joe biden was there to say we've got to organize nato and the western world. i just got back from south korea, from tokyo. in these places, they're all saying you guys better deliver on ukraine, because xi jinping is watching what you're doing. i think joe biden's leadership has helped in this season for the united states. >> it really has. thank you so much, senator michael bennett. "new york times" had a remarkable story about how the biden administration foreign policy team worked about 20 days to push back against the possibility of world war iii, a regional war centered between

iran and israel. by the way, you have mike johnson, mike rogers who runs the armed services committee, mike mccaul who runs the foreign affairs committee, mike turner, all of them are strong advocates for supporting ukraine and they certainly deserve a great deal of credit. john heilemann, a couple more things. you probably missed the top of the show, but a lot of thumbs up here on this show for "palm royale" and especially kristen wiig. put that on your short list. i know you're smirking there. >> no, i'm not smirking. i haven't seen it. i saw the top of the show and

saw y'all raving about it and i already put it on my list, so there. >> he's a busy guy. >> you've got some exciting new news to tell us about your next venture. >> i always have time for a great new television show and always for kristen wiig. my god, who doesn't want to watch that show? i just joined puck news. it's been a while since i've had a regular place to write. i'm really excited about getting back to it, especially given the stakes of the election. a lot of americans were like, eh, i don't want to watch this election. but i think as the stakes come into focus, people are going to

get pretty interested in it. puck have been doing great work covering the nexus of power in america, but they also are a company that's doing something that no one else is doing right now in the media, paying people and trying to figure out how to make the economics of digital media work. i'm doing a weekly sunday night column. i couldn't be more excited about doing it. they are one of the bright shining lights in a pretty desolate media landscape. i'm excited to join them. >> congrats. >> john heilemann, thank you

very much and congratulations. >> thank you. coming up on "morning joe," colleges and universities across the country are struggling to contain pro-palestinian protests. now, billionaire donors are rethinking their support for these institutions. plus, google has fired more workers it said participated in protests announcing the company's deal with the israeli government, as the ceo says the workplace is no place to debate politics. we'll break all of this down with andrew ross sorkin next. k n with andrew ross sorkin next hey! asthma's got you going through it? grab nucala for fewer asthma attacks. nucala is a once-monthly add-on injection

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this generation is so dramatic! move with xfinity. i think what's going on on the campuses reminds me a little bit about the vietnam war demonstrations. it's the responsibility of the university to create a safe and welcoming environment. for many at the university,

including columbia, they failed at doing that, but they're catching on. right now i think they're trying to do the right things. >> that was billionaire donor to columbia university leon cooperman moments ago speaking to cnbc's andrew ross sorkin about the ongoing political protests at columbia over the israel/hamas war. cooperman's comments came as some billionaire columbia donors are saying they are rethinking their support of the school. andrew joins us now. >> i agree with mr. cooperman. i think maybe they were a little slow to it. i know this will make nobody happy, but i think columbia is a good example of where they're trying to do the right thing there. it was columbia where students took over during the vietnam

war. students took over the president's office and everybody thought that was so cool and so noble, younger people like me grew up and were like what? i was afraid to knock on the president of the university's door. there's nothing cool about anarchy and chaos on your college campuses. i think sometimes these administrators, i don't know if theying came straight from academia, i don't know what their problem is, but they're paid to keep people safe and have an orderly environment where students can learn. mr. cooperman may be right there. they're getting it. better late than never. >> today they announced they've gone hybrid effectively for the rest of the semester. a lot of people say you're saying you can't control the situation.

maybe that's thepracticality of where they are, but they're getting better at handling this. that hasn't stopped robert kraft. he's an alumnus. he said he is effectively not going to be giving them more money. there's a whole number of major

money and if you do, we're going to allow you to have dinner with the president once a year. if you give us more money, you'll have five dinners with the president. >> bob kraft is a huge factor. let's talk about google. google just fired 20 more

workers saying our workplace is not a place for politics. you're fired. how is this going over at google? do you expect to see more of it? >> there is a major shift in the valley worth mentioning. google really was the first company to allow these kind of protests. google used to run its campus as if it was a university. for many, many years there was lots of internal protest and conversations on message boards. that was allowed to some degree, even encouraged. now, of course, they're at this new inflection point where they're having sit-ins. they've realized they can't run the business like this anymore. so it is a shift. there was a view that employees

had more leverage over the company. everyone said there's so many engineers, we've got to keep them. now the economies are shifting and they're saying, okay, we've had enough of this. coming up, the massive conglomerate responsible for 40% of all online retail sales has grown so large it's now causing price inflation online. (psst! psst!) ahhh! with flonase, allergies don't have to be scary. spray flonase sensimist daily for non-drowsy

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who are you? >> i'm jeff bezos. >> what is your claim to fame? >> i'm the founder of amazon.com. >> where did you get the idea? >> three years ago i was in new york city working for a quantitative hedge fund when i came across the startling

statistic that web usage was growing at 2300% a year. so i decided i would try to find business plan that made sense in the context of that growth. >> that is amazon founder jeff bezos interviewed at a tech conference in 1997. few people could image amazon would help him become one of the most powerful men in the world and the wealthiest. >> the new book titled "the everything war, amazon's ruthless quest to own the world and remake corporate power." so great to have you. congratulations on the book. how do we get from that version of jeff bezos to today where he's the wealthiest guy in the world and the business that he built is so powerful that it touches everyone's life in one way or another.

>> it's really strange in 2024 to remember that. that company started as this online book seller and from there cornered every part of retail. it's the most dominant force in online commerce, the biggest clown commuting company in the world and the biggest parcel carrier in the u.s. >> in that video in 1997, was he already thinking much bigger than books? >> there were signs he was. there's a scene in the book where he tells another ceo that your margin is my opportunity. his reach for what this company could be was really unlimited. >> there is virtually nothing you can't find to purchase on amazon, nothing. if i want to sell something on

amazon, how do i get my product on amazon? do i pay them? how does it work? >> it's really easy to get onto amazon.com and start selling. because 40% of all aid commerce in the country happens there, amazon knows sellers need to be there. they've ratcheted up their fees really steeply in the last decade from 19% a decade ago to nearly 50% today. sellers tell me they have to be there. if they're not there, they're not going to have sales. they're having to raise their margins in order to avoid tees.

>> in some places the marketplace of amazon has opened that up in a really big way. so the balance of how you think about that benefit on one end versus potentially some of the costs those merchants are having to pay on the other end. >> yeah. you're getting more foot traffic in a small town. i spoke to a man who took over his dad's business that made industrial containers and door mats. he took the family business, put it on amazon and exploded to $10 million in revenue a year. after all his fees on the site, that $10 million turns into $30,000 in profits at the end of the year because the fees have exploded so much. >> you call bezos a modern-day

rockefeller. >> the head of the ftc was researching a law review article about amazon back in 2013. she made parallels between jeff bezos and rockefeller of standard oil. she saw similariies in their business practices, bullying competitors, spying on competitors, predatory pricing. >> it's hard to imagine it could be any more ubiquitous than it is, but what does amazon still have ahead of it? >> in the midst of all these regulators around the world calling amazon a monopoly, their current ceo says they're not big enough. they don't seem to be phased by this lawsuit from the ftc.

he was asked what's the outlook here. he basically said it's like a taylor swift song. haters are going to hate. we're going to shake it off. >> currently amazon would tell you that they are a small slice of the full retail pie. in truth, if you include all of the brick and mortar stores and retail going on, they are a small portion of it. the question is do you do fine the world as brick and mortar, digital everything? i think there's a real question as to what you think the marketplace looks like. >> we got a statement of amazon responding to some of the new

reporting saying, quote, zom has made shopping easier. the new book is titled "the everything war, amazon's ruthless quest to own the world and remake corporate power." thank you so much. congrats on the book. >> thank you so much. >> andrew ross sorkin, thank you. still ahead, a new broadway show tells the story of the man behind vladimir putin's rise to power. to power. with so many choices on booking.com there are so many tina feys i could be. so i hired body doubles. 30,000 followers tina in a boutique hotel. or 30,000 steps tina in a mountain cabin. ooh!

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when others divide. we unite. with real solutions to help our kids. like community schools. neighborhood hubs that provide everything from mental health services to food pantries. academic tutoring to prom dresses. healthcare to after care. community schools can wrap so much around public schools. ...and through meaningful partnerships with families, they become centers of their communities. real solutions for kids and communities at aft.org honest hard working russians are starving while a handful of kleptocrats are not just rich, but obscenely rich. richer than the state itself. it's wrong. >> wrong? wrong? right, wrong.

i'm i dreaming. am i really being lectured on morality by a kgb hack? >> the state must claim its assets. and its authority. a country cannot be run by business men. social policy cannot be determined by business men. foreign policy cannot be determined by business men. >> by whom then? politicians? don't make me laugh! when was the last time you saw a politician you truly respect anywhere? never! >> that's a look at the new broadway play "patriots," following complicated relationship between russian president vladimir putin and one of his earliest political supporters, the russian businessman began his financial backing of putin in the 1990s to see his political creation amass a level of power and

vindictiveness that he would ultimately be unable to control. joining us now, the show's co-stars, emmy, golden globe and tony nominated actor michael stuhlbarg and actor will keen as well as the play's director, rupert goold. good morning. great to see you. great to have you with us. there is so much buzz in this town about this play, and maybe let's start with 30,000 foot view of the story of rupert, it is your show, as the director. what was interesting to you as you set out between the relationship between these two men? >> i think the whole world is fascinated with putin at the moment. over the last 20 years, but particularly since the ukraine war it ratcheted up. our story is an origin story about how this relatively anonymous deputy mayor from st. petersburg rose to be the most powerful and authoritarian leader in the world arguably and it is a secret history about this man, boris berezovsky, who michael plays, the kingmaker in that process and the unwitting

creator of what many people would now see as a monstrous figure. and it looks at the '90s in russia, this extraordinary moment when the soviet union was -- had just collapsed, and was this sort of wild west of mafia gangsters and business men and new conflicting ideologies trying to determine what russia was going to be in the 21st century. >> when rupert calls and says we would like you to step in and play the most despised man in the world, you thought what? >> i was very excited. >> i bet. so what has it been like to step into his shoes? >> it is an incredible sort of privilege and challenge and it is really wonderful to be in something which feels such a sort of vivid daily conversation and feels like it is changing every day because of the filter of the news. slightly alters what the ending of the story is every day, so, it is a lovely thing to do. >> michael, your character, throwing elbows in the midst of

the collapse of the soviet union, there is no telling at that period in time which way it is going to go. you're dealing with someone who you regard as a protege, who you refer to as a kgb hack. how do you get into that role? i mean, who do you talk to? what do you do for research to get into that role? >> well, you look at as much as you can about who the real person was. i watched interviews with boris berezovsky, i watched one in particular front line interview, he gave not long before he died, which -- >> naturally? >> that's one of the questions in our play. what happened, exactly, to mr. berezovsky. but you accumulate as much information as you can and you make choices, but this is also peter morgan's version of this particular story, and he has streamlined the story to keep the audience guessing about certain questions like that as

well. there is a lot of information out there, and we do our best to -- to find our way through it and tell this compelling story. >> it is compelling. >> rupert, how does the turn happen from kingmaker as you described berezovsky to a man who finds himself completely out of the picture, in exile, and ultimately dying? what changes in his relationship with putin? >> well, the real turning point for their relationship was the kursk marine disaster that people may remember which berezovsky at the time was owning the media, like a rupert murdoch figure in russia, controlling all the media narratives on the tv and ran pretty critical coverage of putin, who he saw as someone who was shutting down free enterprise and free trade and the oligarchs as a kind of cohort and putin reacted very -- well, you can understand how he reacted.

and that very much siloed their relationship. from then on, putin began to gather up a lot of state power and these oligarchs were either in prison, dispatched or stepped in line. and that was a sort of turning point, i guess, from putin, as someone who accommodated an oligarch and business community toward someone who is -- and boris ended up in the west, like a kind of canary down the mine shaft, saying this guy is coming, and there are warnings about what he did and at that time putin was very much hand and glove with the west, meeting the queen, all sorts of -- accommodated in lots of ways and so the story really i guess before navalny, before nemisov, there was boris berezovsky. >> it is called "patriots," playing at the ethel barrymore theater now through june 23rd. congratulations, and thank you

all for being here. >> t