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they become centers of their communities. real solutions for kids and communities at aft.org tonight on "the reidout" -- >> this is what takes me off the campaign trail. because i should be in georgia now. i should be in florida now. i should be in a lot of different places right now campaigning. and i'm sitting here. and this will go on for a long time. it's very unfair. >> very unfair. donald trump goes on trial as opening statements and testimony begin in the manhattan courthouse. we will break down what the jury of 12 manhattanites heard and what trump, the republican party, and the country face going forward. plus, chaos at columbia. the battle for america's elite institutions boils over at one of new york's ivy league universities, with charges of

anti-semitism and suppression of free speech flying back and forth. and the school calling the cops on their own students. but we begin tonight with a historic first ever criminal trial of a former u.s. president. which was almost not the first. in fact, the world seemed to stop on its hinges on august 8, 1974. as america's 37th president, richard nixon, became the first u.s. president to resign before the end of his term. >> i have never been a quitter. to leave office before my term is completed is a harm to every instinct in my body. but as president, i must put the interests of america first. therefore, i shall resign the presidency effective at noon tomorrow. >> nixon resigned because he had

committed crimes. misusing government agencies including the fbi, the cia, and irs to cover up the burglary of the democratic national committee by his hires goons. the motive, to insure his re-election. nixon was re-elected but halfway through his second term, the scandal known as watergate erupted. trance fixing the public as it played out on broadcast television. in the end, more than 40 nixon co-conspirators inside and outside the administration including his without counsel and the attorney general of the united states would be indicted or go to prison. but nixon himself would avoid prison due to a decision by his successor, gerald ford, who issued a full pardon. >> now therefore, i, gerald r. ford, president of the united states, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by

article 2, section 2 of the constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon onto richard nixon. >> while nixon would for the rest of his life deny having been a crook, he knew and we knew that but for his resignation, he would have been indicted. the men and women who investigated nixon have said as much, including on the show. so nixon was the closest america ever came to seeing a u.s. president or former president criminally indicted. until now. this morning, opening statements began in the new york criminal trial of donald j. trump, america's 45th president, and the current republican nominee to be president again. at issue, did trump like nixon try to cheat to win the presidency in his case by paying off women he had conducted extramarital affairs with decades earlier in order to keep them quiet and keep the

information from voters? and did he drag his then lawyer michael cohen and david pecker, then publisher of the national enquirer tabloid into the scheme? the way the committee to re-elect president nixon, which literally was called creep, dragged in the watergate burglars. trump faces 34 felony counts of falsifying business records for reimbursement payments he made to michael cohen, including checks handed to cohen inside the oval office. he has pleaded not guilty and his fate will be decided by 12 manhattan jurors. the prosecution began this morning by setting up for those jurors what they should expect to see and hear over the next number of weeks for what the prosecution is calling a criminal conspiracy and a cover-up to conceal election fraud. that counter to trump's claims to the contrary, he was intimately aware of and involved in the coordination of the hush money payment to stormy daniels to silence her story in an

attempt to bolster his chances in the 2016 election. remember, the manhattan district attorney, alvin bragg, who was in the courtroom today, laid out the case just over a year ago, when announcing trump's indictment. writing, from august 2015 to december 2017, the defendant orchestrated a scheme with others to influence the 2016 presidential election by identifying and purchasing negative information about him to suppress its publication and benefit the defendant's electoral prospects in order to execute the unlawful scheme, the participants violated election laws and made and caused false entries in the business records of various entities in new york. the participants also took steps that mischaracterized for tax purposes the true nature of the payments made in furtherance of the scheme. the prosecution says that they will be able to show trump's

involvement beyond just the testimony of michael cohen. whose credibility the trump defense plans to put on trial. through other witnesses as well as documentary evidence. that process began with the first witness called, former publisher of the national enquirer, david pecker. we'll get to that testimony in just a bit. as for trump's defense, they tried to claim that while trump in some ways is larger than life, he's also just an ordinary man, a husband and father, who was just worried about shielding his family from the embarrassment of daniels' claims they had a sexual encounter just months after trump's third wife melania gave birth to his fifth child. a claim trump denies. the defense claims trump was not involved in any way with cohen's payment. the reimbursement checks being generated or the entry in his company's business ledger, it was someone else's doing. they told the jury that nondisclosure agreements are used all the time and are perfectly legal and in trump's overused playbook, his lawyers claim that even if he did try to influence an election, there's

nothing wrong with it. it's called democracy. of course, that will be what the 12-member jury will ultimately have to decide. joining me now is msnbc reporter adam reese, who was at the courthouse today. danny cevallos, criminal defense attorney and msnbc legal analyst, and jill wine banks, former assistant watergate special prosecutor and msnbc contributor. while i cannot and refuse still to believe you were old enough to be involved in the nixon investigation, jill, i do want to have you here because i want you to please reflect on the fact we're now having what didn't happen in the case you investigated with nixon, the prosecution of a former president in this case. >> i have two things to say about that, joy. one, i fought very hard to make sure that richard nixon got indicted while he was a sitting president because i do not believe that the office of legal counsel opinion is correct. but i fought even harder to make

sure he was indicted as soon as he resigned and was an ordinary resident, not the sitting president. if we had succeeded at that, we wouldn't be having all this angst about what is going on now. it would have been shown that the country can survive an indictment and conviction of a former president. but the other thing i want to say is that we have to learn to say the right words. this is not a hush money trial. there was hush money in watergate. and the hush money in watergate was illegal because it was part of an obstruction of justice. it was to keep defendants from telling who had hired them at the white house and at the campaign. here, the hush money was not illegal. but the cover-up of it was. the use of it to avoid taxes, the use of it to avoid americans knowing before they voted what had happened. so i just want us to be calling this an election interference trial. that's what it is. there was hush money in both,

but they were very different. >> i'm so glad you said that. i have been calling it the hush money election interference case because i think that's what it is. the hush money was toward another goal. talk about the way the opening argument on the part of the prosecution has to make that case, because it's true. having someone sign an nda because you bought their life rights isn't illegal. they have to prove there's a crime. >> the prosecution essentially has to prove two major things. number one, trump falsely was involved in the making of those false entries and documents in business records, but also that the intent, the intent was to influence the election. and that's why in opening statements, the defense somewhat surprised me, and maybe it's a little taken out of context, but the idea they would come out and say, hey, there's nothing wrong with wanting to influence an election. that's called democracy. i thought that, to me, that's exactly the kind of thing that the prosecution will in closing arguments turn around and hit them over the head like it's a folder chair in their own

closing. they'll say something like, you heard counsel tell you that it's okay to influence an election. that's the kind of thing that might come back to bite trump. even if blanch meant it in a different way, and maybe he was trying to thread a needle. >> blanch being the defense attorney. >> exactly right. i thought that was risky. it was also a little risky to come out of the gate and announce for the defense my client is innocent. to a defense attorney, that seems like taking on a burden you simply don't have to take on. we have no burden on the defense. we need to prove nothing. in other words, oftentimes more often than i would like to say, if you have a really tough case, your argument in closing is, well, essentially, they have a good case, but good isn't enough. they didn't get to beyond a reasonable doubt. when you say my client is innocent, you're essentially shifting the burden onto yourself. maybe you'll see the people in their closing say, you know, defense counsel came out in their opening and he said, my client is innocent. has he proven innocence? does this look like an innocent

man to you? how did i do? >> it was well done. this brings me to you, adam. when i read the google doc, we were following along what was happening, what i took from it without even seeing mr. blanch is he is constrained to say the things trump wants to hear. not to give the defense that he would probably give if he were free to give a defense of his own making. even saying he's a family man, where was his wife if he's a family man and a father, there was no melania there, no family there, but it felt like he was saying what trump wanted him to say. >> right, he said this is mr. president, we're calling him that because he earned that. and there's nothing to look at here. keep moving along. things like, he was just protecting his family. michael cohen really is out for revenge. he wants to see mr. trump in an orange jumpsuit. he's written about it, he's

making money off it. stormy daniels for her part, yes, there may have been some communications but there's never been any allegation there was any sexual assault. she also is trying to extort him. and ndas, everybody does ndas. rich people do ndas. this was not any type of an effort to corrupt the election. and even to influence the election, there's nothing wrong with it, that's what democracy is all about. >> jill, it is a conspiracy case and i'm glad you brought up the case, it's not a hush money case. it's also a group of people who got together and committed crimes for someone else. in the case of the watergate burglars, in the case of even the attorney general of the united states, they committed the crimes and went to prison, but they did it for nixon. they didn't have any personal gain. in this case, donald trump is the only one who gained from this conspiracy. it's difficult for me to understand what the defense is if you say, yeah, all the things you say he did, he did, but

there was nothing wrong with it. >> it's incredible. and i have been a defense lawyer as well as a prosecutor. and i can say that overpromising is a really bad thing. i think danny was pointing that out. he's right. they overpromised by saying he's innocent. they could have rested on it's up to them to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, and he didn't. and the evidence here is very clear. you have a very clear phone call. how are they going to rebut the words of donald trump talking to michael cohen where he admits he knows what's going on? let's pay in cash, and michael cohen goes, no, no, no. >> let me play it. this is michael cohen. this is a 2016 recording. remember, michael cohen he gets a campaign website, a trump campaign website, which he didn't have before. supposed to be his private lawyer. and this is a conversation they have as donald trump is running for president. this is michael cohen talking about buying the rights to karen mcdougal, the former playboy

bunny's story. take a listen. >> i need to open up a company for the transfer of all that info regarding our friend david. i spoke to allen about it. when it comes time for the financing -- >> what financing? >> we'll have to pay. >> cash? >> no, no, no. >> jill, they're going to try to impeach michael cohen, but cohen i'm sure has more of that. he's on the phone with him saying i need to do the thing i'm accused of doing. >> not only that. one, he's pled guilty. two, they have done a very skillful opening statement. and by calling david pecker as the first witness, they are building the structure that will then lead to the supporting beams and the detailed interior. they have corroboration, much corroboration for what michael cohen will eventually be called to tell. they also have two narrators.

david pecker is a narrator for this case. and he's laying out the scheme, the multiple times that they killed any bad evidence against donald trump, and that they promoted bad evidence against his opponents. so you have this, you know, like you're building a house and now you have the framework. then you get to michael cohen, and it's already been built up, so he sounds sensible and okay. and then you have the documents. and you can't rebut the documents. donald trump signed those checks. you have the tape recordings. donald trump said, oh, yeah, i know, let's just use cash. no, no, no. so i think the defense really has its work cut out for it. one of the senior people on the watergate case, one said, you know, there are some cases that no one can win. there are some cases where you have to pound the table with the facts because you have the facts. some where you have the law, you emphasize the law, and some

where you don't have anything. and even clarence darryl couldn't win the case. so i don't think blanch is clarence daro. even if he was, this is not a case he's going to win. >> you're getting an amen from danny cevallos. >> i totally agree. jill brings up some great points. the defense has a difficult case here. they can't just point at cohen and say, liar, liar, pants on fire. because the state here has assembled evidence that corroborates what cohen says. cohen's lack of credibility may not be as big a problem as many including me originally thought because there are going to be documents. and maybe the people's star witness isn't michael cohen. maybe it's david pecker. a couple reasons why. they opened with him. they never would have opened with him if they weren't feeling comfortable about him as a wednesday. he has less credibility problems than michael cohen and also he corroborates the documents and cohen's testimony. in the end, david pecker may be the state's star witness, not

michael cohen, who really may just be sort of a side show when this is all said and done. >> i want to ask you about that. because the other problem they're going to have going after michael cohen, he did the crimes for trump. he did them for trump. he didn't just on his own -- we'll come right back. jill, thank you very much. adam and danny are staying with me. >> trump built his reputation on the back pages of the tabloids. why the prosecution think its first witness as we just mentioned, the aforementioned former publisher david pecker played a central role.

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when others divide. we unite. with real solutions to help our kids. like community schools. neighborhood hubs that provide everything from mental health services to food pantries. academic tutoring to prom dresses. healthcare to after care. community schools can wrap so much around public schools. ...and through meaningful partnerships with families, they become centers of their communities. real solutions for kids and communities at aft.org today, jurors began hearing testimony from one of the most critical witnesses in donald trump's hush money election interference trial. david pecker, the former publisher of the national enquirer. he's at the heart of the alleged coordination between michael cohen and trump to silence the stories of women who claim to have had sexual relations with trump in order to save his

campaign. a longtime friend and ally of trump, pecker has been cooperated with state and federal prosecutors in their investigations. prosecutors say he participated in an august 2015 meeting with trump and michael cohen to discuss countering negative stories about trump's relationships with women by buying exclusive rights to their stories and never publishing them. a practice known as catch and kill. he has been granted immunity in exchange for his testimony and in 2018, the enquirer's parent company made a deal to avoid federal prosecution, acknowledging that it paid $150,000 to playboy model karen mcdougal for her story about an alleged affair and held it until after the election. in october 2016, pecker is alleged to have aided trump again, brokering the deal that led to michael cohen's $150,000 payment to stormy daniels. he is expected to take the stand

tomorrow. he explained how his former company conducted business. he told the court, quote, we used checkbook journalism and we paid for stories. i gave a number to the editors they could not spend more than $10,000 to investigate, produce, or publish a story. joining me is kristy greenberg, former sdny division deputy chief and msnbc legal analyst who was in the courtroom toopd today, and back with me are adam and danny. >> david pecker is going to take us into this scheme, the conspiracy. they gather at trump tower. you have three players. three coconspirators. donald trump, david pecker, and michael cohen. the "access hollywood" tape comes out. the campaign is turned upside down. what are we going do? they're on defense. they hatch this plan, they meet at trump tower. they're going to do three things. they're going to catch and kill three stories. stormy daniels, karen mcdougal, and this doorman who has this story of donald trump fathering

a child unwed, which apparently isn't true. that's number one. number two, they're going to attack his opponents in the 2016 election, ted cruz, marco rubio, and number three, they're going to promote good stories. we're hearing now from david pecker at the end of trial today, he's going into this emails. he has two emails. a number of telephones. we're going to start hearing these communications, texts, emails. it's the documentation, the checks, all of that that will back him up, and as danny said, he could be as important a witness as michael cohen. >> so thank you for being here, you were in sdny. i'm going to bring our off the record conversation during the break online. the issue here is that michael cohen was prosecuted by the southern district of new york, where you used to work. but the southern district of new york could not prosecute trump at the time, he was a part of the conspiracy. he's named in the cohen indictment, right? >> individual one. >> individual one, but he was president but he was untouchable

at the time. to me, the problem the defense is going to have is explaining how what cohen did is a crime but he did it for individual one, but that person also isn't guilty of a crime. >> right. at cohen's guilty plea, cohen very clearly says, i did this at the direction of and in coordination with donald trump. and it's there in black and white. he's never backed away from that since his plea. he's been consistent with that. and so yes, that piece, i think, is going to be really hard for them to deal with. they hone in on this in the opening, the state. they were very clear. who was the beneficiary? who was this at the direction of? the same words cohen used you saw in the opening today because it's a key point. the jury will use their common sense and understand that. >> everyone will understand, danny, michael cohen isn't the one who had an affair with these women. he had no reason to do it. there's no reason to take out $130,000 second mortgage on your

home that you then have to make up lies to the bank in order to qualify for because you wouldn't have qualified other than making up stuff on the form. you committed that secondary crime. what reason would he have to do that if he wasn't doing it for trump? >> i'm glad you brought that up because that's a great example. if michael cohen the been an ultra rich friend of donald trump and he could just reach into his pocket and pull out $130,000, then that might be a tougher argument to make, but what you're pointing out is michael cohen did this at great risk to himself, at great cost to himself, at great difficulty. imagine for anyone going and getting a mortgage for the purpose of paying hush money. that's not something you would do unless you had some tremendous benefit from that. and for michael cohen, there was none. the only person benefitting was donald trump. i think the state is going to benefit from that. in addition, they have corroboration. we have spent so much time talking about michael cohen being not credible. i don't know that it matters all that much, because they have david pecker, they have the

documents. we have seen the documents since at least 2017, 2018. the checks with donald trump's signature on them. all those records are going to come in, and the jury, as i think juries often do, i think they understand that cooperating witness types are not perfect. and there's even a rap that prosecutors will do in their closing, it's going to sound like we didn't choose this witness. we didn't choose him. trump did. that's who trump did business with. that's who we had to bring in to tell you the story. so look, so far, prosecution 101, they're following the playbook. >> let's talk about -- you were in the courtroom, the demeanor of the jury. you were talking a little bit about that. how were they reacting to the things they were hearing from david pecker and the prosecution and defense? >> i was keen when the prosecutor was talking through the "access hollywood" tape, and the language there. and i didn't see anybody flinch. there was no visible reaction to that language. there was a visible reaction when both sides were talking

about how frugal donald trump was. at least one juror smiled. and kind of rolled her eyes a little bit. there were reactions to that, but otherwise, it was tough to read them. >> yeah. >> it was day one. it was a short day. they were listening intently and they were actually taking copious notes. so we'll have to see as it goes on. there will be some witnesses that aren't as exciting as david pecker. but for today, they were listening intently. >> what do you expect to hear, because david pecker is going -- today was passover so they had a shorter day, what do you expect to hear from david pecker? >> i think david pecker is a great witness for the people because he's going to describe a scheme. in other words, this will not be a case where we're looking at one or two or really the transactions that are in the indictment in isolation. david pecker is going to set the stage. he's going to take us back to the beginning. in the beginning, there was a meeting. in that meeting, we talked about our catch and kill thing that we did. and notice that even in his

opening testimony, david pecker described what he called checkbook journalism. that actually is at odds with what trump's defense counsel said in his opening which was to portray this as, look, the enquirer does what it does. we don't have control over their editorial capacity or what they do. instead, david pecker is going to really describe the culture of what his business did and what he did through his relationship with michael cohen, with donald trump. and remember, they were friends. he may have information that we don't even know about yet through that friendship. so again, david pecker is at the lead, and i think that's for a reason. the people feel comfortable with him. they feel like they can come out of the gate with a bang. >> and he'll tell the whole truth. let's talk about donald trump's demeanor. i find it interesting that the defense opened by talking about him being a family man when his family wasn't there. what was the reaction of him to being lauded as a family man, and did the jury react to the fact that his family wasn't --

did they seem to react? >> the jury has been listening all along. they react at certain points. in terms of his demeanor, leading up, we had a week of jury selection. and he was closing his eyes. we need to be very careful to say whether or not he was sleeping. >> meditating. doing zen. >> his eyes were shut tightly. today, he was pretty wide awake and very aware and very interested. he looked straightforward during the prosecution's open, but listened intently, and he's been listening to david pecker. looking at him. david pecker is actually looking at him too. david pecker is directing his comments to the jury, so donald trump's involved, but you know, he's also a little bit uninvolved and just sort of not caring much. this is going to go on for a while, and it's going to be interesting to see how he sort of acts. is he going to act out? it's going to be six weeks. >> because he's losing his mind as soon as he gets back to his

truth social toy. >> one thing when you said how does it play that melania and the family are not there? well, the defense argument is that these hush money payments were made to protect him, to protect his family, and to protect the brand. not the campaign. if it's for the campaign, that's what makes it an illegal campaign contribution. that matters. the fact they are not there, how much does he really -- how much was this really about anything other than the campaign. david pecker is going to say we had this meeting, michael cohen, donald trump who called that meeting. we learned today donald trump called that meeting with the three of them and they talked about the fact this was on the eyes and ears of the campaign. i want to protect anything from hurting the campaign. it was very clear we were killing these stories because we didn't want it to affect the election. then it worked because after the election, there's this thank you dinner and he invites him to the white house. we're going to hear all about that. the one key point they also said was after the election, donald trump didn't care if they were released from these ndas.

it was dino the doorman, after the election, okay, we don't care. go ahead, talk. you hear that on the audio recording, can't we just delay the payment? just delay it. after the election, it didn't matter. nothing to do with his family. it had everything to do with the election. >> i hope they show michael cohen's campaign email. why would he have a campaign email? make it make sense. thank you all very much. up next on "the reidout," the tim o'brien joins me on how this trial is the reality show trump never, ever wanted. stay with us. are you still struggling with your bra? it's time for you to try knix. makers of the world's comfiest wireless bras.

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donald trump fled new york city because it was a city that never really loved him. either personally or politically. as a criminal defendant, trump is required to sit in a new york courtroom and listen to regular new yorkers call him selfish and self-serving or a racist, sexist narcissist. for half the country, that is not news. but it is a thing that trump avoids. he lives his life in a hermetically sealed mar-a-lago bubble where people cheer his every move and affirm every ridiculous idea that he burps out. faced with the unvarnished truth, trump is the emperor with no clothes, feckless, feeble, and incoherently untethered to reality, at least when he's awake. joining me now is tim o'brien, msnbc political analyst.

i'm glad you're here, tim, because it does seem to me this is the shrinking of donald trump. his legend is kind of hard to keep up with when jurors are saying he's just a regular guy and he's falling asleep like your average senior citizen. >> i think he's painfully and visibly aware of it. i think right now, he's -- today at least, i was in the courtroom, and he kept it under wraps. >> did he make eye contact with you? >> you know, i was in the overflow room. >> got you. >> he was sending me his hate beams through the tv screen. you know, he's profoundly aware he's not in control of the narrative. he's a media addict and someone who spent his whole life myth making. and laying down these legends about his success as a businessman and as a lover and as a student. and as an athlete and as a politician. and all of that in different ways are being put in play in this court proceeding. >> let me play a moment. we were talking about it during the commercial break. it's where a reporter asks where

his wife was. here it is. >> where's melania? >> where is melania? >> she's not with him. that's all we can say for certain. you know, i had dinner with donald and melania in mar-a-lago in 2005. and they were -- >> that's a year before the stormy daniels alleged -- >> yeah, and they were very affectionate. legitimately fond of one another. playful, affectionate. he took great pride in her. i think she loved everything he brought into her life. i think she also clearly knew the deal she was making when she hooked up with him. to see the two of them now, and trump in particular, just the complete sort of emotional and moral degradation. not that donald trump walked into it in 2005 as like a model, but he is visibly altered physically.

he's aged severely over the last four years. and i think she made her deal with the devil. >> yeah. she knows what she's doing. she knows exactly what she's doing. >> the fact she's gotten to a place where she's not even going to show up in court. >> it would help him a lot if she was there. let me play this moment, the moment that allegedly triggered the hush money payment, the emergency hush money payment to stormy daniels. here it is. >> have to use some tic tacs in case i start kissing her. i'm automatically attracted to beautiful. like a magnet. i don't even -- when you're a star, they let you do it. you can do anything. grab them by the [ bleep ]. you can do anything. >> donald trump's lawyer said he's a man, he's a husband, he's a father just like me. when that was read, they're not playing the video, but they're reading those words, i don't see how any juror thinks that's a father, a husband, just like me. >> i think the prosecution will have a field day testing that

idea. trump said last week, i'm being gagged in this courtroom. i can't leave, i can't even go to my son's graduation. i can't see my son graduate from high school. well, let's remember that four months after his son was born is when he allegedly began his affair with stormy daniels. so the great loving father who can't leave the court to see his son graduate has no problem fooling around behind his wife's back shortly after his son is born. >> let me put up the list of -- we know who is going to testify, michael cohen, stormy daniels, karen mcdougal, david pecker, we just go down the list here. hope hicks who was one of his close aides. who do you think he's worried most about hearing from or most uncomfortable listening to? >> i think he's worried about all of them, which is why i think he so desperately tried to put the brakes on this. i think david pecker is a fact witness to the conspiracy that gives weight to the idea that they were setting out to ultimately affect the election

results. hope hicks was in that timeline, but she was an apologist for him. you know, i don't know that she knew what the truth was, but she certainly wasn't telling it. >> she knew where the campaign stood. that seems that's what they want from her, right, to talk about the state of the campaign. at one point, republicans were talking about dropping him as the candidate after the "access hollywood" tape. >> right, remember in that moment in trump tower and there are all these pro-maga people saying we love you, and he says i'm going to go down the street to talk to them, and jared said you can't do that. you're in trouble. that's the mome whnlt trump realized he had this superpower within the party to go beyond the party elders. i think pecker, i was anticipating his testimony today. it gauze cut short, but i'll be there tomorrow to watch it. it could be unraveling trump. >> we shall see. tim o'brien, thank you very much. coming up, columbia university switched to remote learning today as student protests over the war in gaza

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where tensions have exploded over the protests and allegations of anti-semitism. the new york police department has built up a large presence around columbia, and columbia's president has shifted the campus to remote learning following a weekend of demonstrations. more than 100 people were arrested over the last several days, after the university asked police to break up a tent encampment students had set up on the south lawn in support of fwauza. the students who were arrested were peaceful and did not resist. they erected dozens of tents on the campus lawn last week and refused to leave until columbia met their demands including divesting from companies with ties to israel. students on campuses across this country have created encampments in solidarity with those arrested including at m.i.t., yale, new york university, and the new school. at the crux of these on-campus tensions are allegations of anti-semitism hurled against

jewish students or accusations leadership has not done enough to keep the students safe. protesters are saying the anti-semitism is not coming from columbia students. joining me is reverend mark thompson, host of the make it plain podcast. and marium aljuan, a columbia students who helped organize the pro-palestinian protest and was suspended and arrested. she's also an organizer of columbia university's students for justice in palestine chapter. thank you both for being here. i want to start with you. because people are equating the protest that you are one of the leaders of with the people who were screaming at jewish students just off campus. are these two groups connected? >> no, i think that with every social movement there are unfortunately outside people a protests that you are one of the leaders of with the people who are screaming at jewish students just off campus. are these groups connected ? >> with every social movement, there are outside detractors who try to come and spread

hateful rhetoric and we stand against this. it is horrifying to see what we stand for liberation and human rights and equality for jewish people, palestinians, that is what we are calling for. >> i saw, mark, these students singing and singing about peace and singing salaam and words of peace. it didn't square with what i was hearing on television, the shrieking anti-semitism, i didn't hear it. >> i was there yesterday and it was very peaceful and moving. one of the institutions affiliated with is units ecological seminary and the union students held a sunday worship service and served communion on the campus, even to those got the gates who couldn't get in. this betrays the imagery of there being violent rhetoric spewed. i will say this, i to have a colleague whose daughter is a freshman at barnard and she has faced some harassment. as maryam alwan said, these are outliers. we have always had -- >> it happened at black lives matter rallies. >> you have provocateurs. it is not a good idea to generalize what is going on. these are peaceful and

nonviolent demonstrations. >> what do you make of the leaders of your school seeming i guess to appease maybe members of congress that have been all over your president and want her to resign calling the nypd on you all ? >> it feels like it has been a mccarthyite campaign to try to equate our peaceful protest to call them to divest from violence and they are calling us violent instead. it was horrifying to be carried out in surprise when we were just peacefully calling for an end to the violence. >> let me play, ilhan omar's daughter was on with my good friend of the weekend, this is what she said. >> i think the encampment was one of the beautiful forms of solidarity. we would be singing songs, we had meals together. people prayed together. they held shabat yesterday. it has been a community centered space. because of the fact it was outside, it hadn't disrupted

any classes and had been an isolated kind of moment where the zone in which we were protesting in is the demonstration zone that we were allowed to technically be able to protest in. >> somewhere charged with trespassing. it is about $60,000 and cents to attend that school but you are considered trespassers at >> they should've suspended us to say that we were trespassing. when we were suspended, they said we were suspended because we were arrested. >> you are suspended from school. >> yes as well, yes. >> there is a history of the school calling the police on protesters but these were black protesters back when they were building the gym. >> 1968, same thing. honestly, it looks like we are headed back there. what happened in 1968, democratic convention in chicago, people protesting the vietnam war. here we are again protesting a war with the well paid consultant class doesn't seem to be able to get over to the white house is that he is very much looking like lbj at this moment. and, if the white house isn't careful, they are going to hand this election over to donald

trump. i'm very proud of these students. they remind us of all the things we used to do. we went yesterday as clergy, myself, reverend stephen green, tamika mallory, we prayed, we shared communion. we can do two things at once. we can say happy passover to our jewish sisters and brothers and also fight for justice. >> there were jewish students protesting with you. what do you make of the fact that your protest just calling for even cease-fire at this point is being equated with it the semitism? >> it is very sad. it is a smear campaign we have been dealing with for a long time now and i feel like, i think it is because our institutions and our government are so invested in these violent companies that they will do whatever it takes to blacklist us. >> what do you want students, what is your group asking for ? >> we are asking our school

divest from funds that are profiting off of apartheid and genocide as well as amnesty for all students and faculty that have been subject to this mccarthyite campaign and discipline and we also want transparency about what columbia is investing in in the first place. >> i becalm just from memory and from reading that the vietnam war protests, when they were suppressed, including at kent state, violently, they just spread. seems like the same thing is happening here. the more the clampdown happens on the students standing up for palestinians and gaza, the more it spreads. >> nyu, mit, yale, just in the past 24 hours. the word has gotten out that president biden will speak at morehouse. we can expect illustrations at hbcus as well. >> do you think that, why do you think there seems to be more fear of this movement? during the trump administration, there were actual massacres at jewish institutions. a couple of major massacres. there seems to be more alarmed

about the students than about that atmosphere donald trump has created, pulling knotty things back into the discourse. >> i honestly agree with richard haas in the council of foreign relations, who has been been on morning joe. benjamin netanyahu is running against biden. there are politics, it is not just about what is going on over there. they want to impact the election here and have the next system, benjamin netanyahu, trump, and vladimir putin empowered. >> thank you very much maryam alwan, mark thompson, my friend, thank you very much, we will be back. plateau de fromage! oh la la! don't panic. gift easy with gift mode, new on etsy. we're still going for that nice catch. we're still going for that perfect pizza. and with higher stroke risk from afib not caused by a heart valve problem,... ...we're going for a better treatment than warfarin. eliquis. eliquis reduces stroke risk. and has less major bleeding. over 97% of eliquis patients did not experience a stroke. don't stop taking eliquis

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that is tonight's the reidout. i'm sticking around for tonight's special coverage of trump on trial, new york versus donald trump, with the whole team, including rachel maddow, who was inside the courtroom for today's opening statements and testimony. that starts right now. >> the people of