stretch. >> yes, extreme violence, anarchy, very good adjectives, i think if you look at this, we can see and it from my vantage point, i see a lot of people running. yeah, they're running out back toward this direction. as i said, the pepper spray and even we're on the other side of the plaza here. we're going to get a get a sense of that as well, playing in the air. but a lot of folks running this way trying to get away from all that that is that's playing out there. unbelievably so. yeah. this picture here, when this young guy who was obviously pepper sprayed and they're trying to wash out his eyes, he's in significant pain. there's still no sign of lapd. it was. and that is you're at picture at chelsea edwards. go ahead. this chelsea ready? can you talk to us about what you're seeing from your perspective? >> yes, this is fox news coverage of chaos on campuses

across this country. you are looking live right now at the scene on the campus, ucla, one of the jewels in the crown of uc system. and tonight, it is the scene of ,outright lawlessness. pro-palestinian protest is have been camped out there in the center of the ucla campus for several days now. and this evening, l.a. time, a group of counter protesters showed up and those two groups have clashed to repeatedly. we have seen firecrackers thrown into crowds of people. we have seen people attacking each other with large paw poles. we have seen fistfights. what we have not seen for the last hour or more that this has been going is one single officer from the los angeles police department. this lawlessness is playing out on the campus of a public

university and not a sign of los angeles law intervening. we have seen people hurt. we have seen at least one person taken away by ambulance. we seen other people on the ground. >> we've seen people pepper sprayed. we have seen people clearly suffer physical injuries in the brawls that have been ongoing, but not a single officer from the los angeles police department campus security is there. they are outnumbered. they are not equipped to deal with this kind of lawlessness on this campus. so it goes on. the two sides continue to face off against each other. and this another example of the chaos that has gripped college campuses across the united states. earlier tonight, about 5 hours ago, the nypd moved in and cleared out the protesters on the campus of columbia.

no such action here in l.a., nothing from law enforcement. i want to bring in the guests that we are very fortunate to have with us in these early hours, midnight here on the west coast, 3 a.m. on the east coast. ted williams among fox news contributor, of course. and ted, we're now seeing traffic cones being thrown at each other. we've seen fire crackers thrown into the crowds. it is out and out lawlessness, ted. and i'm frankly utterly bemused by the lack of law enforcement action. what do you make of it? >> johnson i'm embarrassed. i am embarrassed by what we have seen going on there on the campus at this time. where in the is law enforcement? you would have expected the mayor, the administrators on that campus to have law enforcement there. there is such great terribly

wrong here where law enforcement officers cannot go in and protect innocent kids . somebody is going to get seriously hurt under the circumstances here. >> this should not happening on an american campus. this shouldn't be happening anywhere in america. and jonathan, i have to believe that there are some instigators that have some high ground terrorists involved in these activities that are course, this kind of scares them. this is not peaceful demonstration. jonathan, when we were on earlier, i represented that if students were peacefully demonstrate, demonstrated, they should be permitted to do so because. that's the american way. but what we see here tonight and you see how it is on that campus is. look at those totals.

they are combat fighting each other. they are going on. somebody is going to be seriously harm. and, you know, if somebody is serious, then all the lapd now and hard administration, they may better will have some blood on their hands if someone is seriously injured here. this is not an acceptable pull pull moral. >> let me bring paul in here. paul, i mean, this this borders on the insane to me. i hate to turn delve into hyperbole, but it is insanity that. this is being allowed to happen, is it not? these these crowds, two sides are getting closer to each other rather than further apart. there are more fights rather than less, and nobody is doing anything. i literally do not understand what we are watching here, paul, and how it is being allowed to happen. you know, we're all on the same

page on that, jonathan. hyperbole is justified and, you know, this suffers by comparison to what went on in new york. as you said earlier, when the nypd was finally activated, they went in and they did the job. they did it cleanly surgically, and it was ended quite quickly. i in a larger sense, what you are witnessing is the failure of an idea. we are seeing the ultimate failure of, the progressive approach to urban governance. when you draw back from these spaces with law and you lose a sense of order and the sense that somebody in charge, people fill that order, we've seen it on the new york subways. we've seen it in a lot of other cities around the country. you're seeing it now in ucla. and yet we still don't see some sort of reaction from the powers that be in l.a.. and all i can say, as i said earlier, is there better be one of a forensic going

forward as to what went wrong here, because this is not supposed to happen in an american city. and this is, i'm sure, being looked around the world. and a lot of people have to be saying to themselves, what happened to that country? this is not what we expect from u.s. yet. >> nicole, i know that you would agree absolutely with what paul is saying this as as law enforcement agencies around the world. look at this. it is embarrassing the united states, isn't it? >> oh, it's absolutely. and i agree with terry and paul. i mean, quite frankly, our country has been an embarrassment on the national level for several years under this administration. we have we did weakness. there is no leadership starting at the top and trickling all the way down to our individual cities. and quite frankly, these individuals that are wreaking havoc on these campuses, that if they get hurt, you need to go home. you are breaking the law at this point. you have passed the point, a peaceful protest and exercising your first

amendment rights. violence is not your first amendment right. you need to go home. this party is over. and law enforcement to get in there. and like we have all been saying, and not being, enforce the laws. it's very simple. enforce the laws when there are no consequence is. you can expect the chaos to continue and it is going to unravel on a level that is going to be even more dangerous. you've got nip it right now in lapd. i don't know where they are. they're asleep at. the wheel for whatever reason, it really doesn't matter. but frankly, the world is watching. and yeah, i mean, how can they respect america when we don't even respect ourselves? we don't even have law and order. i mean, it's just disgraceful and we've seen it over the past several days. iranian leaders are praising these protests. if you are outside of a country, our adversary and you are they are applauding you, you need to take a look in mirror and realize that you are not on the right side of history. that is not the side that you want to be on. and frankly, i believe this is a much bigger problem in this country. there is more to okay, this is a battle between good and evil. and these individuals are not

doing what is right. and that is just the bottom line. nicole and let me i just want to pick up on the point of what you're saying there about the message this sends. you know, i look at this in the in the bigger picture, hamas is going to lose its war with israel. hamas will ultimately be destroyed by israel. physically speaking, they will go into rafah. they will clear out what remains of hamas there. they will track down hamas terrorists around the world over the coming years. but hamas right now is looking this and thinking, okay, whatever's happening physically to us and our members in gaza are winning the international battle because we are now have students stirred up on campuses, america and swearing allegiance to us. >> hamas, a terrorist organization.

this is a victory for the terrorists on hamas, isn't it? >> correct. they have won the hearts and the allegiance of united states citizens. okay. this is. i was myself a witness to the 911 terrorist attack. i was in a world financial center working for merrill lynch the time. i would have never guessed that in the year 2024, there would be individuals in our country fighting with a foreign terrorist organization sympathizing with them, demonstrating for them. these people are not you know, this is part the point of sanity. this is in my eyes. they're showing sympathy towards terrorist groups. >> how this. okay. and the fact that we have no one order right now to control this if we can't control our own people, how are we going to win a victory against a foreign group? >> hmm? yeah. nicole, i know we have to let. you go. it is. it is the early hours of the morning where it's grateful that you have been with us through this extraordinary

night of violence on one of the blue ribbon campuses of the u.s. system, ucla. nicole, thank you for being here. we still have julian epstein with us and joe connolly, let me come to you first, joe, former nypd lieutenant. i'm still just cannot get my head around the idea that the l.a. police chief is not sending officers in here, joe. >> it's his decision, isn't it? >> he doesn't need to wait for an order from l.a. mayor karen bass or anybody. the the police could just send officers in there and should send officers in. >> am i right on that? no, you're wrong, jonathan. i'll tell you why you're wrong. because he works at the request of the of the mayor and the government officials. so if they tell him to, stand down here, stand down. i guarantee you the interesting police chief, police chief is waiting to go and they're telling him to stand down

because there is no other explanation. jonathan, i'm going to take off my police hat for a minute and let's put on a personal you know, there's a reason why the other side came out tonight. the man was the last night of passover. all right. and i have to tell you, you know, my girlfriend, i spent the week with her family. and, you know, we to say to him that, you know, you say the prayers and you sit there, you have dinner and everything in the last week of the discussion and hug grandma and the holocaust survivors. all right. and how parents sit back and watch this and they say that's so reminiscent of what happened with germany. all right. it is almost identical how they did. and it does strike fear in their heart. but i'm going to tell you something, too. it also makes them more, you know, they get angrier and they want to respond. and they had their religion came first this week and they had passover. tonight. it was over. and there's no wonder that there's a crowd out there

tonight because they've been, you know, feeling all week about this. and for the longest time and, you know, i love ted williams. i've been with him for, you know, for over 22 years. we started together with fox. but i have to tell you, you cannot say that it's strong. it's like throwing a stick of, dynamite into a into a house to clear somebody out. it's not that the israelis did not stop this. yeah. all right. they not start this, but they will finish it. i guarantee you they will finish. all right. and if nichole was still listening, she would tell you after 911, i work with a lot of the israeli forces, too. right? because they they also know what it's like to have a large scene. and they helped us through our days after 911. and i'm going tell you, they're far from being slouches. they are one of the toughest armies in the world. all right. and they are prepared to do what they have to do to make sure this never happens again. the sad part is in this country, they are allowing these types of protests

that embolden people across the seas. all right. to send more people over here to do their dirty work, their little proxies that are inside these these learning institutions. and i don't think they're blue ribbon institutions longer. i think people are going to sit back and say, no, i didn't like what they did. my kids not going over there and find other learning institutions where they actually something or they're not going to learn terrorism. >> 101. >> yeah. joe, let me bring ted back in there as you as you just mentioned him, ted, your reaction as you watch this and listen to joe. >> well, as i listen to joe, joe is my friend. and joe is absolutely right in . one instance, but this is what i am simply saying in israel, gone in the gaza after having 1200 of his citizens either killed or injured, are kids now. they have every every right to go in. but when we look at on

the television, on a night to night basis and we see 30,000 or more palestinians men women, a lot of kids, a lot of children, innocent children have been killed as a result of this war. i would have to believe that it is a moral equivalency when you think about the fact that you are really throwing a stick. dynamite in my house to kill the allies, you're killing over 30,000 people versus that of 1200 or more israelis. and again, i joe, i want to make sure we are clear. israel has a right to defend itself. israel the right to go into gaza. but is the does not does not have a right to say to the

palestinian people as a whole. we are not going to cut your electricity out. we're going to cut your wall. you're not to have the basic needs that are necessary to survive. so as a result of that, that is the reason that taking the position i'm taking. but when you look at these dilemmas traders out here tonight, these demonstrators, i guarantee you if you do an investigation, you've got to turn it down to determine that hamas hamas has agents in this country, that all stirring up these demonstrations. and you're right, it's a national embarrassment and winner of this, unfortunately. i got to tell you, jonathan, you write about hamas. they love seeing this. they making videos out of this. and so i'm i'm deeply concerned. >> yeah. ted, thank you. as we look at the pictures here, it is clearly some sort

of reorganization going here. both sides still out there in some force. the original palestinian camp and protesters, the left of your screen as you look at that, look at it there. the counter protesters are towards the right and you see some security guards walking through. pretty powerless to do anything. and i was just talking to kptv reporter chelsea edwards via text. once again, full disclosure is my wife. she's on the scene right now for tv. she tells me that as we have gleaned from our from watching these pictures. she's there and she has not seen a single officer. as we watch the aerial pictures, once again of one side throwing objects in this case look like water bottles at each other. >> it looks to me as though the pro-palestinian camp may

have diminished a bit. >> now, whether some of them have chosen to leave or whether that is just that they moved, slightly impossible for us to tell at this point. we'll try to get some clarity from the excellent kptv team on the site there. in the meantime, i want to bring back in julian. julian, i wonder if you can speak as you did so eloquently earlier, to the bigger picture of this and what we were just talking about with nicole and ted and joe, that the the one of the great winners in in this chaos is hamas, who have clearly emerged as the victors in the propaganda wars, at least in the in the minds of so many young americans. it seems crazy. >> but it's a fact. that's right. and it's a good segue. way to respond also to what ted just said about israel conduct in gaza. i had the pleasure of having

come to my house a couple of months ago and consider ted a friend, but i would disagree with ted and say that there is no army in recent memory that has done more to protect civilians than the israeli army. they not only warn civilians of impending attacks, the civilian militant ratio in gaza has been lower than any urban combat in recent memory, including combat that the u.s. was involved in. in places like mosul and afghanistan and other in iraq. the civilian militant casualty ratio is about 1.5 to 1. israel has done more to get aid basic needs into the civilian population in gaza. any army in recent memory. so i think it's important to have that as just sort of, you know, basic facts. also to pick up on what

joe said. you know anybody that has studied the history of what happened in germany knows that the drew a lot of their energy from the university community, both professors and students. and the same for maoist china, the cultural revolution in both nazi germany and the cultural revolution in china cost tens of millions of lives. >> the the notion that has that that hamas has been promoting to respond to your question is that this is a the the student on campus is somehow a defense of human rights and liberation. you know, and i would say to these protesters who i believe are either knowing and willful propagandists of hamas or they're useful idiots. you know, where were you when the regime in syria killed over hundred thousand arabs civilians? where were you in recent

years when? >> the civil war in sudan cost over 2 million lives. where were you when all of the reports about and document documentary evidence iran, iran and the regime killing and persecuting women because they won't wear hijabs? where were you with all of the atrocities committed by? the houthis in yemen? where were you? when it comes to the over 1 million muslims who are imprisoned in concentration camps in china? it's only when the jews attempt defend themselves do they come out in in in mass protests like this, because really what this is about at the end of the day is anti-semitism ism and the belief that that the jews do

not have a right to their to their ancestral and the jews have a greater claim on the ancestral homeland going back 3500 years than any other group. and that's just a sort of a fact of history. it's also the fact that history israel has proposed on five different occasions with the peel commission in 37, when with the u.n. partition plan in 48, after the 67 war in 2000, with president clinton in 2000 and 2008, the palestinians were offered on at least five different occasions. a two state solution. all of gaza and all of the west, essentially all of the west bank. and they turned it down. the charter of hamas, that these protesters are serving as their surrogates for now, the charter of hamas pledges the , the intentional

murder and annihilation of jews. >> it's in their charter. so this is not something that should be some moral confusion. >> no, i but i think, julian, you know, we do to point about useful idiots. i think if you ask too many of these students, you know, what are we, good muslims? the muslims you're talking about, we're being put in concentration camps in china . they'd have no idea if you asked them, where is sudan? they wouldn't be able to point it on on a map. but i'll come back to you in a moment. julian, i just want to point out to our viewers again what we're watching now. more clashes on the campus. it seems to be heating up. we just heard a lot of firecrackers thrown from one side to the other. i'm being told by the kptv reporter on the ground there, chelsea edwards, that the propane stinson protesters have been moving the barriers, effectively trying to take more ground and force the counter-protesters back and

away from them. so essentially what these pro-palestinian protesters, anti-israel protesters are doing is trying to expand the amount of this public university campus that they control and that they have now controlled for several days. let's dip in. i think we're just being told by control room we can dip in to the kptv coverage again. >> let's listen in. the cones, the construction cones being thrown, fists flying, firecrackers have been thrown. i mean, we really have seen it all. what we haven't seen i'll repeat myself, but it's worth repeating. we seen law enforcement. so to your point, add that one black and white, the campus police vehicle that is parked out front that has been parked out front for the duration of the night. so i think that one was just sort of already there. gina silva is on the ground as well. gina, what you seeing from

your vantage point? well, we just saw a lot of, you know, just so many crowds here throwing things at the protesters. of course, you saw the protesters themselves moving the barricades, even more to this side where the agitators are also tossing things. >> you've been here for quite some time. what's your name? jake, please tell me a little bit about. >> oh, my. holy. apologize for language. obviously, this is a very tense situation when you take away. oh, and i try not to curse people. go get my bad. when i first got here, it was a very. the crowd was much smaller. you could reach the. you could go into that building right in front of us with no problem. walk around. the longer i go here every single day, the crowd kind of got growing and getting more aggressive. it's just really sad. see, like my community being like this and just throwing stuff and all this

violence, that's not normal. but witnessing history. when when we first got here, we spoke with someone who said they witnessed the crowd coming in and they were carrying an israeli flag and they started throwing things at the protesters. is that what you witnessed as well? i witnessed, like i said, we're witnessing right now, you know, people getting grabbing the fence and throwing them and ripping all of them apart. a little scuffles back and then people just throwing punches, as we see right now, people throwing stones, fire extinguishers. it's just grown really aggressive and. that's the thing about the smoke that you see, you know, even if it doesn't if it's not directed at you, you can still get overcome by that because it is so strong. alex. marla it's nice to put up strong. i mean, it's really bad. that's just violence. like, this is so violent and we're in the middle

of westwood like, this is a college campus, right, where students are going and it's just insane. this is just never i've never seen this before in my life never expected this time. no, absolutely not. and as you can see there, are so many people who just came out here to watch this. there are crowds that are standing on the side and they are just staring at this watching history unfold here at ucla. yes. oh, my god. it's getting more and more violent. it looks like they're literally infiltrating. and as we continue to look at the pictures being provided to us live by our fox affiliate here in los angeles, katie, you can see that the violence is continuing. if anything, it is getting worse. the pro-palestinian who essentially are screen left have been trying to move their encampment outwards, moving the barriers, essentially trying to take more ground. the counter-protesters have been throwing towards

the pro-palestinian protesters. we have seen fights break out. we have seen fist fights. we have seen fighting with wooden poles being used on both sides fire crackers being thrown directly into the middle of the crowds. that looks like another one now from the smoke and various protesters on both sides. i'm being told from people on the ground have been pepper sprayed. so which is a very painful thing. i can tell you from to go through. >> and so what we still have not seen in some 2 hours almost now into this violence is a single officer from the los angeles police. as we continue, i think all of us and esteemed guests who have been joining us for the last couple of hours seem to be thoroughly bemused by that that.

the lapd has not gone in and, joe, you were saying that the police chief here would have to wait for an order from mayor karen bass that if if the mayor is saying hold off, then the police chief would keep his officers out of there. and that certainly seems to be what's happening. we don't know that that order has come from mayor bass, but we do know that. >> the lapd is nowhere near the scene at the moment, joe. yeah, i mean, i don't understand what the problem is. why isn't this mayor giving him the order to go in there mobilizing every officer that they can mobilize? and if it's not enough, mobilize, just like i said before how governor newsom's and then the national guard. this is becoming a life and death situation every moment that goes by like this, they are getting to the point where there is going to be a major clash here. those barriers break down. they're going to be both sides are going to mingle. and i want to throw in one

on one fight like this. it's going to get so far out of control that somebody is going to get killed over again. i'm telling you, this is not this is nothing to play games with. they should have them in there. they should have them in their hours ago. but as we said, jonathan, this is happens when you coddle the likes of these organizations. all right. and they want to meet their demands and, you know, maybe meet them halfway and say, all right, we won't give you know, we won't buy from israeli companies. that's not the way to handle college. you're there to learn, get rid of them. this is really getting out of hand right now because those you see and somebody else just got pepper sprayed and, you know, now they're going in there and it's going to be larger weapons coming up. so you what i don't think is going to happen and i can i can tell you, joe, that having to people on both sides of this that has been a growing frustration here in l.a. among members of the jewish community that this was

being allowed to happen, that jewish students were not being allowed to walk as they wanted to across campus, that they were being forced to go a different way around, that they didn't have the simple freedom of movement on a public university. and i think a frustration that many in the jewish community felt nothing was being done and nothing was being done. and now you see people matters into their own hands. i know, for instance, that there is a group here called bulletproof israel, which has done a lot of work raising money and getting supplies over to the idf in israel and to people in israel who need those supplies. but they have also been over the past couple of years because of anti-semitic incidents in l.a., they have been escorting people to on a on a friday night. and i know that they have been offering now to go on to the of

ucla. and they have some pretty tough guys. i don't know if those are the guys who are there right now. but clearly, we are seeing people who are at their wit's end with the lack of control that there has been, the lack of interaction that there been or action that there's been from the university administration and ted williams. people are just taking matters into their own hands. ted here and they're going this is the their prayers can. yemen. go ahead, ted. yeah, we got. thank you. to the embarrassment, jonathan, is that the police who is sworn to protect the citizens are not there and they are standing down and joe right there standing down because the man is not speaking out and letting them do their job. those police officers want to do a job.

and we are watching. jonathan, we are watching national embarrassment. and i want to make sure we're clear on that. a national embarrassment. this should not taking place in america. and julian epstein was definitely right earlier when he said that these students are off. most of don't even know why they are demonstrating. that's the sad commentary about it. but i'm telling you, trust me on this there are some instigators that need. these two groups, the clash there are instigators who don't name these but demonstrate they need this same hamas is beyond me. what we are now. you don't want to on ucla campus and they're going to use that as propaganda against the united states.

america. >> yeah. and julian, let me bring you back in to hear this. i mean, obviously, all of this was sparked by our international conflict, but this has major domestic political implications, doesn't it? and i'm still we have not heard stronger language coming. the white house. do you think we now will and should julian? >> i did speak to them. they we we must hear it. and the left i mean, they conservatives in the republican party have had a great deal of moral. and the left, i'm sorry to say, has that a great deal of? moral confusion. you know, when i was at the judiciary committee working for the democrats, i remember multiple times when black folks and brown folks and folks were systematically targeted and the democrats leadership would all rise up in unison and we should invoke to 42 of title

18, which is the criminal civil rights statutes, allow the justice department to prosecute violations of civil rights. they say we should use 1983, which is the civil provision which allows victims to go into court and civilly. you know, back in 1957, when segregationists tried keep black students away from schools after brown b board of education, dwight eisenhower ordered in the 82nd airborne. and it is puzzling to me in the same way that when israel is faced with a 911 and israel being a country of 10 million people in a sea of 500 million in neighboring countries, many of whom are pledged their destruction, israel the same way israel's questioned about whether it has a right to defend itself. it now seems that the are not

willing to stand up to what i think can only be characterized as the racism on the left, directed at jews and will do what they did. as i cited a number of things that they could have done. they could invoke title six. they could go after funding. and the fact that the democratic party does not take a morally clear position on this domestic what is essentially domestic terrorism at this park, at this this is criminal behavior, i think is not only shameful to my moral point of view, but dumb from a political point of view. you i speak to jews every day, jewish americans every day, who have always, throughout their life voted democrats. and to a i hear many, if not most of them saying, that they will not vote for joe biden. and this is the reason. and you know, you're seeing a hemorrhaging right now in the

democratic of working class, black, working class, brown and ,even asian voters who are leaving because they don't like the fact that the activist left the sort of the deal has so commandeered the part of the party in a way that just, you know, makes no common sense and sort of is offensive to common sense. right. i'll finish on this point, julian, i'm sorry. yes. go, gone, gone. sorry. excuse me. so what what what? i think what i think the president should do is he should have an oval office address and he should say what is at stake in the mideast, which is the only democracy that protects the rights of religious minorities, of ethnic minorities. you know, most arabs living in israel would say they would never want to live under a regime that was controlled by hamas, ever. and to make clear what the stakes are in terms of civilization in israel, but equally importantly, what are the stakes with all of this anti-semitism, those erupting on college campuses?

and to make clear that he has all of the federal law enforcement capacity needed in order to put this to an end and that it won't be tolerated . and that's the kind of leadership that's the kind of winston churchill like leadership that i would like to see from a democratic that i've grown up in and that, i'm sorry to say, is failing. this right now. but julian is it is is it particularly difficult to have moral clarity when you are trying to appeal to different slices of your base in different geographic areas the country? does moral clarity become something of a blur when? you allow domestic politics to intervene, shall we say? >> jonathan that's exactly opposite moral when you have a complicated political situation with different factions, it's when you need moral clarity.

it's to have moral clarity. when it's easy. it's hard that moral is called for you. the test of moral clarity is when it's difficult. and that's what we learned from winston churchill when, you know, people thought when many people thought that western was was wanted to appease hitler and, that there was some even some of that feeling in great britain during world war ii, winston churchill got up and he explained to the people what the stakes were, what the moral issues were. i mean. i think the reason that you have seen some cratering of support for israel is because we have not seen the president do what he exactly after after israel was attacked on about october 10th 11, when he gave the speech explaining why this was a fight for basic decency, why this was a fight against, and why this was a fight for western values ,why this was a fight against genocidal, maniac, maniacal terrorist.

and when he made that speech in october, that was very powerful we need that right now. and the test, again, of moral clarity, what you do when things are difficult. and that's exactly if the president did that, he would pick up he might lose a couple of votes in dearborn, but he would pick up so many votes in center and he would do what people want, which is in troubled times people want a strong leader, strong, strong, strong somebody who will get up in the oval office and say, this is right and this is wrong. and i'm standing with what's right, the torpedoes. yeah. and i think you're absolutely right, julian. you do get the impression that there are voices within the democratic party saying you need to not offend this group or, appease this group, and what you need is somebody who rises above that and shows moral clarity as as you rightly say, it'll be interesting to see over the next 12 hours

or so what, if anything, we hear from president biden and the white house, because what we are witnessing now is pretty extraordinary. and joe connolly, you're still on the phone with us. julian talks about moral clarity. you need clarity of decision making as well among elected officials, among law enforcement leaders. and it doesn't appear that we have any clarity of decision making here in los angeles right now joe. >> no, absolutely. i agree with julian. we just don't have a moral compass in this country and they don't. and it's it's sad because when you think back to the day that elizabeth came about, you know, i mean, go back just to ronald reagan's day, you know, tip o'neill over there when they would reach across and where there was bipartisan and issues address, you know, where everybody could come together and say this is what's best for the country, not for one party. i imagine it's happening right now. and i'll tell you, you know,

i don't want to throw my campaign in here. i'm i'm going to tell you what my my thing is. i think my thing don't vote. you can't even vote. common sense votes are common sense. if these things are working for you right now, then fine. you know, ship with you. but this is not working for any side. none of this across this country. i mean, you talk about 10 million people ogling israel. we've had that many people come across the border right now. and that's another issue that's going to come out. and some these people are at these campuses right now across the border. there's no doubt in my mind about that. i went to the 911. i know exactly what happened to that and what's happening right now with everybody else over here. the super are here. there's nothing to laugh about and something has to be taken serious. but they can get confusing so many different issues at the same that they're getting their points across from across the country, you know, across the world without even being here. i mean, these are their proxies is right now and they're promising. but we really didn't want to do through.

all right. so colleges are no longer, you know, institutes of higher learning. they're not all right. they're not them. but sleeper cells themselves with teaching the things that they will teach, if they wouldn't teach the proper history, as julie said, they would know what they're fighting for right now is what alive. they don't have that moral compass. that's the problem. ted williams still with us, too. ted we were just as as joe and julian were that we were just watching more pretty intense brawls going on among the the two groups of protesters there. and i still, as we pull out to a wide shot there, ted, there's there's not a single l.a. vehicle that i can see. i'm still being told by our our affiliate reporters on the ground there that there is not an officer in sight that might be a black and white in the aerial shot there. >> but if they are they're sitting in the vehicle

and not doing anything. i do not get how this is a scene on a campus, a public university campus. ted, in the united states of america at this point in time, how how can it be allowed to continue, ted? >> jonathan, you're at the $10 million question. i can tell you, in all over the years, over 40 years as a lawyer and being in law enforcement, i have never, never witnessed what i watching here today. and that is the lawless service that is taking place where there are absolutely no law enforcement officers whatsoever . somebody needs to pick up the phone and, call the governor of the state of california and tell the governor, one of your mayors in california

is not doing our job. and it, go do your job. sam. the national guard, joe and julian are right when you look at this campus here tonight from somebody is going to be seriously harmed or this cannot continue. when you look at this and as i've said over and over, without being redundant, this is a national embarrassment. we are going to wake up tomorrow morning and we are going to see happened the on the campus at ucla. and we're going to be talking about this in many, many. and one of the things we're going to be saying is that in america, what we are witnessing here tonight should never, never happen. and somebody somebody with some responsibility is going to have to say something. julian is right and this state,

their commander in chief, needs to get on the air and talk to the american people. because i can tell you what we as witnessing here tonight and as shocking as it is, it's going to continue. it's going to my school is going to just over and be in our faces and americans are going to get hurt. and julian, you are right. there shouldn't be a single or single joy person in america who should feel intimidated and that they should not walk around as americans themselves. this is different. yes. unexcelled. >> and julian, let me bring you back in here you are. you're the historical analysis of of this is so fascinating. >> and it strikes me that as we watch this tonight, the counter

protests and i know from talking to some people from the organization here in l.a., bulletproof israel, which has done a lot of work, both helping israelis and protecting the jewish community here, that they are. they have said repeatedly to me personally and publicly over the over the last few weeks and days in particular, when we've seen these protests and jewish students being so fearful on campus, they have said we will not allow history to itself. i want to get your thoughts on that. julian, your great historical perspective on these issues. well, first of all, thank you for that. jonathan and ted, thank you for your comments about not a single jewish student should feel threatened. i think we can say that about

any student of any ethnicity or background. and we we are brothers. and, you know, and that sentiment in terms of history repeating itself, i you know, you can go back to you can go back to 3500 years of jews being despised and persecuted in not just in the mideast, but through the pogroms in russia in czechoslovakia, in poland. and you can go through the ages. and this is sort of just a continuation of that. and if you look at where anti-semitism really raised, it's -- it's it's -- it's ugly not just in germany, but elsewhere throughout throughout history, particularly through the pogroms, it found much of its support amongst university professors and amongst university. so this does feel very, you know, reminiscent of anybody that has studied

the history of jewish persecution. again, jews have been persecuted more than any group throughout the history of mankind or humankind, i guess you have to say, these days. so there's there's that. then secondly, there is the point. every time the jews have had to try to make peace with, you know, with the arabs, i mean, there really weren't palestinians per se. there's never been a palestinian nation. there's never been a palestinian currency. there's never been a palestinian president. mostly palestinians were just referred to as arabs until 1964, when the soviets got together with yasser arafat and started to make sort of the palestinian cause a, you know, a thing. but, look, the time the jews have tried to make peace, whether it was 37, 48, 67, the our linda, they they

have been rebuffed. and when they left gaza, when israel left gaza 2005, rather than the palestinians and their leadership building a product, you know, they had the they had the crown jewel real estate on the on the bank of the mediterranean. i mean, they could have turned it into another dubai. they could have built a incredibly successful productive economy. but what they did with not just their resources, but all of the international resources that they stole, they have still more international and aid than any who ever in the history of of of donor countries and rebuilding rather than building a a productive economy. >> what they did was they turned it into a war machine. and then in 86, 87, when hamas was sort of formally assembled, you know, their assembly calls,

their their charter calls for the annihilation of the jews. >> so the bottom line here is, if the jews were to lay down their arms today, they would be slaughtered, all of them in israel. you know, if hamas laid down its arms today, there would be peace. >> and that's the difference. and as watch these protests that you've had on your air for months now, every single jewish protest that i've seen or pro-israel protest has been peaceful. and increasingly all of these pro-hamas protests have been turning violent and increasingly violative of the laws. so it seems to me that they're just isn't that there shouldn't be that much more confusion. anybody that studies the history here, anybody who understands how the palestinian-israeli conflict came into being, you know, palestine, this area

was occupied by the ottomans for 400 years. and then before that, the druze and then before that, you know, the assyrians. >> and you go down the line what these protesters doing today is they are aligning themselves with the most anti progressive, racist, bigoted like ideology that first wants to kill the jews. but then guess what? guess who else they're coming for? they're coming for the sunni arabs. they're coming for. they are coming for christians. they're coming for anybody who they consider to be a heretic. >> an apostate, or or anybody that is from their sort of theocratic ideology. and that is the cause, the like cause that this group of protesters, the student, the students who just seem to be completely ignorant of the basic facts here, this

is who they're aligning themselves with. and that's when we need a winston churchill like figure ,say this is what is right and this is what is wrong. and this is a fight. this is this is a fight about the survival of civilization itself. >> and we need a leader that can come out and say that. >> and we have been that in the last few months. >> yeah, you mention history, julian. and, you know, i was in gaza in 2005 when, as you as you point out, israel handed gaza back to the palestinians, completely withdrew all the all the israeli settlements that were in the gaza strip and a year or so hamas was elected. they could have run gaza in any way they wanted. they could have used all the billions of dollars of aid that were pouring in there to help the people. but as we now know,

horrifically, october 7th, what they did was build tunnels and prepare for war and prepare to instigate the horrific events of october, which have led to where we are now. it it's extraordinary that so many of these young people that we are looking at now on the campus of ucla julian, if you ask them the basic questions of the history with the palestinians, the israelis, they can. they can i can't answer any of them. they've learned a couple of things. now, we've you know, we were asking in the first few weeks after october 7th if they knew what they meant when they said from the river to the sea, they've learned the rote answer of that. but you delve any deeper into history with them, julian, and your absolutely right. ignorance is part of the problem here, i think oh, try try asking them. jonathan who gaza and who

controlled the west bank before 1967 and they won't be able to answer that question. and the truth is that jordan, the west bank before 67 and egypt controlled gaza after until 67 as well. and the reason that they no longer controlled there or they didn't after 67 was because israel was a terror attack from multiple sides by jordan, by syria, by egypt and israel, that war. and then even when israel gave the land back, when israel offered gaza back in 2005, rather than as just pointed out, rather than turning it into a productive economy on behalf of palestinians, what did was they turned it into a war encampment, a military encampment aimed at doing nothing but eradicating israel because of their racist hatred for jews and. that's what the history is.

and, you know, when when when when israel was willing to give gaza back to egypt. >> egypt didn't want it. egypt didn't want to deal with the headache at that point. >> right. and and so israel has offered gaza israel has offered the west bank. and in each case, in every single case, they have been rebuffed. you ask any of these protesters just the basic facts, simple, easy facts about this history, and they know nothing about it. yeah. julian. julian epstein. julian, it has been an absolute pleasure talking to you on what is a sad day for the united states as. we watch this what is essentially been a riot on the campus of one of the major u.s. universities, ucla here in l.a. cannot thank you enough for the historical perspective and analysis you've given us in these early hours of the morning. julian, thank and let me put a button on this with ted williams as well.

ted, i believe you're still with us. it's still a let's put a law enforcement button on this, ted, as we wrap up this hour of our coverage. extraordinary to me now at least 2 hours into what is essentially been a riot on this campus. not a single lapd officer. yes, it is extraordinary. and it is a embarrassment that california probably never live down of what we are in here tonight. >> i have to believe i have to believe that in the next hour or so, they're going to have to see me in law enforcement, young kids are being hurt. young kids in america being hurt. and so this is very, very troubling. very troubling. jonathan jonathan, you and i covered things together. and i can tell you, i don't

think you and i could say we've ever, ever covered something so embarrassing to the united states of america, as we are witnessing here on the campus of ucla late at night with law enforcement not being there to do their job. the job that law enforcement would love to do. but some it never probably now is holding them from going on that campus and doing their job. yeah. and ted, do you think we will see them in the next two hour or so? just i've got i've got about 30 seconds, ted, do you think they have to come in within the next hours? because it seems to me if they were going to come in, they would have done it already. >> jonathan i think and i'm hoping and praying that they do in within the next hour or so. i would have to believe that somebody somewhere in california with some regard is watching these two groups. our question and they know

that this is wrong. this is alarming. this lawlessness. they are going to have to come in. i would have believe that would be another hour. law enforcement who will be there. >> okay. ted williams, thank you it has been a pleasure being with you. with you over the last couple of hours of this extraordinary breaking that we have been watching. ted williams, thank you so much and what you are looking at live now, pictures from our fox affiliate here in los angeles, katv channel 11, of what has been nothing of a riot on the campus of ucla. remember ucla, a public university, one of the blue ribbon universities of the uc system. pro-palestinian protesters took up residence on that campus several days ago. and tonight, as ended, we saw

counter-protesters go on to the university campus. and what we have watched for 2 hours now is ongoing brawls between the two sides. wooden poles have been used to attack each other as the protesters clashed. firecrackers have been thrown into the center of crowds. pepper spray has been sprayed in the faces of protesters on both sides. it has been little of utter lawlessness. and what we have not at any point over the last 2 hours is a single officer from the los police department. there is chaos on the there is no law enforcement presence . for continuing coverage now, i hand >> a fox news alert happg right now, by lengths on the