think correctly, that we have a robust department of justice, robust military structures. we do investigations. when we bombed a hospital facility in a war zone by accident in afghanistan, you see the american investigation. you can see it online, except of course for the classified portions. the russians and the chinese don't do that. our system works is what we would say. but that puts the burden on us to make our system work. the same is true for the israelis. the same is true for every other country in the world. when you commit these crimes you bear the burden of proof for their investigations. do investigations, do prosecutions where it's appropriate and you have evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. but you have to charge these crimes, as emotive as they are, based on the rule of law. host: we really appreciate the

conversation this morning. thank you for your time. guest: yes, ma'am. thank you, and thank you to your viewers. host: we will join in progress the washington post hosting a conversation with journalists and advocates discussing freedom of the press and security of journalists covering conflicts abroad. live coverage on c-span. >> nonprofit groups working collectively to call attention to the plight of journalists worldwide, including one who is serving a 25 year sentence for speaking out against russia's invasion of ukraine. someone who has suffered harassment and sham monitoring laundering -- money laundering accusations for her work. and austen, detained in syria since 2012, believed to be the

longest held american journalist in history. the list of terrible situations, like these in our world right now, is long. we are joined by several individuals who know through personal and unfortunate circumstance and experience what is at stake for journalists worldwide. the world is closely watching the wrongful detention of journalist evan gershkovich and we are honored that his sister, danielle, is here with us at the post. it is essential that those who stand for freedom of the press stand with and for evan and not rest until he is home. danielle will join my colleague onstage for an update on evan's case. he was wrongly imprisoned in iran 10 years ago and is a powerful example of the risks that journalists face and his safe return is also a symbol of hope for all of us. we will be joined by my colleagues who will tell us

about their work in covering the israel-gaza war, the terrible risk to journalists in that conflict, and challenges to gaining access to cover the conflict. finally, we will release the 2024 world press freedom index from reporters without borders and talk to media and free press advocacy group leaders about the global landscape or press freedom and what is at stake as billions of voters across the globe head to the polls in many countries this year. thank you again for joining us in your commitment to these issues. jason and daniel will join us after this short video. thank you so, so much. ♪

>> no journalists around the world are increasingly under siege in a variety of ways. that has now manifested itself once again very powerfully in evan's detention and incarceration in moscow. profoundly, unjustly, for doing his job. ♪

[applause] jason: thank you for coming. i am an opinion writer at the washington post and want to welcome you to this important event. i am pleased to be joined by my friends, danielle gershkovich, whose brother evan has been held wrongfully in russia for over a year now. danielle, thank you for being here to talk about evan's case and your advocacy work to bring him home. danielle: thank you for having me. jason: 401 days is where we are in evan's detention. he was arrested in a city and a court in moscow rejected an appeal last week to release evan on bail, which means that he

will be, in all likelihood, in jail until at least the end of june. i want you to start by telling us about evan's current situation, what you know, and how he is doing. danielle: right now, we are at a critical moment with the extensions of his detention. our family is continuing to put faith in president biden's promise that he will get evan home. we are continuing to take it day by day for now. i think showing the recent photo from the courtroom, this is so incredible that this is evan and we are so proud of him. i can't believe he is holding up so well. he works so, so hard to be able to keep his spirits up.

jason: i can tell you that when i see images like this or video from the courtroom on the one hand i'm horrified by what he's going through, because i can relate, but also i feel like i am looking back in time a little bit. the defiance and resilience is inspiring to me as someone who went through something similar a long time ago. i understand that the two of you communicate by letter. i know that you have to be careful about what you write. maybe they don't get to him or get to you in their original form. what can you tell us about the communications you had almost directly with evan? danielle: that is how it feels. i get a letter from him at like christmas -- from him it is like christmas morning and i hear his voice in my head when i'm reading into feels like i get to

chat with my brother. it is a lifeline to my parents and i, and all of his friends, and everyone who loves evan gets to write to him. it is our way of supporting him. of course, there is a lot of sibling banter. we like to tease each other. so, he is telling me that he is enjoying spring. more light. i'm happy to hear that. jason: talk about the process of sending a letter. can you share a little bit about how it happens when you receive things, how you receive them? danielle: so, the letters have to be in russian, which has forced me to brush up on my russian. i was a little rusty. so, i take about a week to write him a nice, meaty letter, and there are nice people over there who will print it out and send

it to him in prison and will take a photo of it and send it to us. jason: at the one-year mark the wall street journal ran a front-page, which is a jarring thing for anyone in the newspaper business to see. i think it was a very powerful and stunning reminder not only of what we are missing, but also the power of journalism. on that day, washington post colleagues here wrote a feature story about you to mark that one-year anniversary of evan's arrest. talk a little bit about how this is affecting you personally and also your family. evan's community. the larger community. a lot of people don't understand

the impact that something like this happens on a wide number of people and the ripple effects keep going. danielle: evan is just an amazing person and he has made friends all around the world. we have seen this community not only of his friends, journalists, politicians, everyone cares so deeply about this cause, and it has been heartwarming to see. we are incredibly grateful for wall street journal and that publications are continuing to keep the spotlight, and that it is not just my brother but connected to a deeper issue of press freedom worldwide. jason: also wrongful detentions, which is something that we've been talking a lot about. as a sidebar, i interviewed brittney griner a couple of days

ago. this group of people is growing. it is not a family that you want to be part of. once you are in it you are welcome. there is a real connection between all of us. the piece that the post did with you as the de facto face of evidence story, even though you consider yourself to be the more quiet one who is often in the background, i know from my own conversations with my big brother, who was thrust into this position as well, that it is not a title that anyone wants . it is not a position that anyone wants to be put in. can you tell us a little bit about how you have managed this sort of thing? you and i have talked about it before. it isn't something that you ever imagined having to do. not just for evan, but

generally. what has that been like? danielle: it was so scary in the beginning. i'm just a normal person. i never sought out a career that would put me in that kind of spotlight. i'm shy. so, it was very intimidating. but anything for my brother. it made it easy in that i knew that i had to do it, and i'm just really grateful that i had so much help from so many people . i think that is what we keep repeating. it takes a village. i got advice from a lot of great people. i have done more public speaking than i have in my whole life. i am really grateful that i have so much support for that. jason: i have watched many of these cases unfold. i can say that you have become really the most effective and powerful advocate for a loved one who is being held on the others the world. were you surprised a little bit

about the power of your own voice? danielle: i guess i don't even think about that too much. jason: probably for the better. danielle: yeah, i'd rather not. i'm just so glad that i can be an impact for evan and for everyone else who is wrongfully detained. everyone should be able to go home to their families. i just want that so badly. jason: you were quoted in the piece that the post-grand saying that i am really here just remind people -- that the post ran saying, i really just here to remind people that evan is a human being. what is attempted in cases like this is to dehumanize someone. you look at images of your brother essentially in a cage, being photographed. talk about what that means to you.

what does reminding people of evan humanity mean? danielle: he is just an amazing person. i'm so glad that the world gets to see that. first and foremost, to me, he is my brother. he is the person who has supported me, rooted always for me, someone that i miss so dearly. also, he is an amazing friend. he is so caring and so loyal. people from all around the world keep telling us, i am his best friend. i am his best friend. he is that kind of person. he brings people together. that is the most important thing to me. that people know that he is not just a journalist. he is also an incredible guy. jason: and a very good cook. danielle: yes.

he and my dad do cook offs. he cut his teeth at -- mom and i sit back and do the dishes afterwards. he is an amazing soccer player, an arsenal fan. he will talk to you about literally anything. we didn't always ci to eye in our childhood. i was always a weirdo. now he will talk to me about anything. jason: i heard there were some movies that you won't see when he comes home? danielle: i saw dune. he gave me the green light. he loved her the first one and i was waiting to see the second one. he said, no, it is ok. you can go see it. jason: i hope that you can rewatch it very soon. i was truly moved and astounded by the community that i fell into when i was released from

detention in iran. we are a small number of people, relatively speaking, who have paid such a steep price for doing -- for making journalism. what has it been like for you and your parents to establish relationships with other families who have gone through something similar? danielle: every case is different, but it is like an odd family. like you said. to everyone who has been through this experience, like you have, and is continuing to do this work, this activism, it means the world to support families like mine. and for everyone who is continuing to go through it, it is just such unusual, strange

circumstances. we are therefore each other as much as we can be. jason: i reached out to your mom through mutual relations. it is a small community. very soon after evan was taken and we kept up a text message friendship and i get to see her every once in a while. your family, obviously, would never have hoped for this but they are incredible, you are incredible, advocates. i want to say that you handle it incredibly gracefully from my point of view. this past week president biden talked about evan and included calls for his release in his speech at the white house correspondents dinner. former president donald trump told the wall street journal that your brother should be released, calling your brother a

very brave man. what is the message that you most hope to convey about the price of press freedom? danielle: we are so grateful that our country understands, this is a bipartisan issue, this is democracy, and it is also a matter of safety for american citizens. so, it -- grateful continues to be bipartisan. no one should have to pay that price for journalism. we just want evan home as soon as we can. jason: i got to see you and your folks at the correspondents dinner. kind of a strange environment to be with people who are struggling through one of these ordeals. the year that i was in prison my

brother came as a guest. the following year, he and his wife and my wife and i all attended, and it was a nice way to bookend a really horrible experience. i hope that we can all go to that next year. if you want to. i'm not sure you will want to. but it was pretty spectacular for me to be able to spend some time with you guys there. you know, i am humbled to know that my own release in some way has become a symbol of hope for other people in this community. what do you think evan's homecoming is going to look like and feel like? what do you want it to be like? danielle: we discussed in

letters that we want to take a family vacation together to get away from everything and spend time together. just i'm sure that you can imagine how much we miss each other. we fully trust evan that he knows what is best for him. he is a really smart, hard-working, talented person, and i think that he might still want to be part of the journalism community someday. jason: i certainly hope that he wants to, but i could understand why he might not want to. all these years later, i'm glad that i chose to stay in it. i just want him to have the choice, right. there are a thousand other things that we could discuss, but i think that we will leave it there for now. i really appreciate you listening and sharing the moment with us. thank you for being here this morning.

[applause] ♪ >> on average, more than one journalist is killed every day during israel's war on gaza. ♪

>> they took us in a couple of apcs, armored personnel carrier, devices. we didn't see a thing from the edge. all of a sudden we emerged and there we are at the hospital. israeli special forces soldiers rush us up to the third and fourth floor. we have a look down at the hospital. what we saw at the hospital, i have been there many times in the past, not recently, but during my past time here, and it was gutted. it was gone. >> hello, welcome back. i am the international editor at the post.

since october 7 the attention of the world and washington post has been affixed on israel-gaza war. the post has mobilized dozens of correspondents across the middle east and the world in d.c. and egypt and lebanon and london and seoul. we have assembled a large number of correspondents and photographers and researchers. we haven't been for the most part in gaza, in the heart of the story, where access has been extremely limited to talk more about that challenge of breaking in, bill booth, is among those who made were the focus of their reporting. it is great to see you both.

you have spent your career reporting from gaza. at the moment you are no longer there. can you briefly tell us where you were at the start of the war and why you and your family have decided to leave? >> yeah. october 7, the attacks started in the morning and i was asleep at the time. it was 6:30, around 7:00. there was -- we didn't realize what was happening because what happened never happened before. my two boys were to go to school. i started making phone calls and

the online messages, what's up, what's going on? it took us a little time to realize that there is an attack by hamas in israeli communities nearby. that was a very shocking moment for me and for the majority of people in gaza, including my family. i realized, i wouldn't say immediately, but later in the day, that this is something different. gaza experienced different wars, but this is different. even the first afternoon when the israeli strike started, there was a building right behind our building.

so, i started to think that this isn't a joke. this isn't a small war. this isn't going to end soon. from the first day i started to discuss with my wife and with colleagues, should we move? i got to this place many times even the short time that i stayed in gaza. not short, but in comparison with the people still there. i left gaza october 3. i left my house and two days later to a local hostile, and i didn't sleep. at 2:00 a.m. we were ordered to evacuate and we went to the hospital nearby, shifa. my wife, two boys, and i stayed in the hospital until the morning and then we moved to the

house until we were asked to evacuate gaza city to the south. we decided from that time to leave, because for many reasons. for our safety, for my family, for my two boys and wife. it is important to be -- and we even stayed in the south in an unfurnished apartment. it was very hard. communications and blackouts happened many times while i was there. even my work wasn't easy when i was in gaza. the movement inside of that territory was really difficult and hard. i feel i was lucky to be able to leave. douglas: i'm going to ask you another question, but while we talk we are going to show some images taken by our colleague, a

photographer who was taking photos on behalf of the post from october 7 until he too left in february. for much of that time he was the only post journalist inside of gaza alongside photographers from other news agencies on the front lines. this gives you a sense of what gaza looks like today. hazem, you have now had to cover the war from outside in. now from cairo where you and your family are now. how are you able to do your job to learn what is happening on the ground in real time? hazem: i have to say that it's not easy. it's not easy to be away from gaza. the fieldwork is the best for everything, but as i know gaza -- i was born there and i lived

there most of my time -- i covered different wars. i have relatives as well. i have friends. i know gaza geographically, politically, socially. i worked there, apart from being in gaza myself, every day in the morning. i am chatting on the phone or a different means to people there. mainly to check on my relatives still in gaza. some of them already left, but some others -- i talked with friends and colleagues on the ground. i checked the news around-the-clock. technology now is really good. it helps. there are a lot of channels on telegram, what'sapp and other

platforms that keep the news on. of course, i'm well-connected to the sources in different areas, mainly in gaza and nearby. that is the main thing to keep an eye. geographically, i would understand what is happening here and there. when i talk to the people i would understand what does that mean and how hard is that so that i can understand the thing there. douglas: i will turn out to bill , who is based in london but is a former jerusalem bureau chief who covered the last major war in gaza in 2014. access to gaza has always been highly controlled by israel.

in the last conflict you were able to spend multiple weeks on the ground, even while fighting raged. what is different this time? bill: in 2014, a couple of days before the 50-day war began, i ran across the border with a free pass from the israelis to go into gaza. i had been multiple times. we could get into the enclave. peter from the guardian, we cross in, and we could immediately begin to work. we quickly worked with them and we got into the car and we could

drive and go anywhere. we had free movement in 2014. 2014 wasn't the same war as this one is. they began with more strategic strikes. they hit where they aimed, the israelis, and then it became more of a ground war, much more use of tanks and artillery. but we could go wherever we wanted to. it wasn't crazy, it wasn't dangerous, and we were pretty methodical but there were no real guardrails on the situation . at the same time in 2014, i slept every night at the hotel on the beach and had breakfast and dinner. hazem went home to his family.

it wasn't safe but it was doable . this war, the 2024 war, we are not in gaza. i think that the world is missing not necessarily my coverage, but hazem balousha's coverage which would be very valuable. but we are not. we have to cover it long distance. douglas: bill was recently allowed four hours in gaza on a trip with the israeli military to view the ruins of what was once the country's largest hospital, out shiva -- largest hospital, al-shifa. while we talk i will show photographs from another photographer who joined you on that trip. you wrote that it was like looking at this war through a pinhole.

can you talk more about what you saw and what you learned and didn't learn? william: yes. i had the illusion that i might see things driving into gaza. we got in our armored personnel carriers, we drove in on these dirt roads that the idf has made , but i had the impression that i might be able to see things through the cameras. the cameras were turned off. the two apc's that i was in. i thought that i would have a little bit of a problem because i didn't want that i was seeing anything that the palestinian reporters haven't seen already and have shown us photographs

and reported on. i thought, maybe i will do a narrative. but i didn't see a single palestinian, i didn't see any. then we pop out of the apc and we are surrounded by israeli navy seals. they say, hurry up, hurry up. there are snipers in the area. there are still people around who are hostiles. you could hear weapon fire around us. we go up to the third and fourth floor where the navy seals are camped, the israeli navy seals. they show us the view with hazem in 2014. since then i have been to al-shifa many times. it is the biggest hospital in gaza and a central place. the hospital is completely destroyed. it wasn't leveled to the ground, but it was an unusable destroyed hospital. the odd thing was -- not the odd

thing, but the value of being a reporter getting to go somewhere is that the idf tried to explain that they could have leveled the whole thing, but they only hit certain areas because they were meeting so much resistance. they were essentially almost proud of this fact. but the hospital was destroyed. if you didn't go you couldn't see, you wouldn't have been able to get the sense of what happened there. so, that was the story of that four hours. douglas: as bill mentioned the fact that access has been so limited on the ground has meant that the world has relied on a small number of extremely brave palestinian journalists, including hazem and others who have been left behind. many have been killed, the

number altogether in the war is 97 journalists, the vast majority of them on the ground in gaza. bill, what do you worry most is being lost in terms of the world's understanding of what's happening in gaza? william: you know, i think that our palestinian colleagues have been doing a great, tremendous, difficult job. right? for us at the washington post and others, the old expression in foreign journalism is that you have to go to see. you have to get there to see what's going on. telling the stories of war are telling the stories of people who are displaced, who are killed, who are combatants, who are innocents, or who are on the other side. if you don't have that, what

militaries around the world will give you our numbers and tallies and tactics. numbers and tallies and tactics are not what war is. war is extremely violent. this latest gaza war is extremely violent. the civilian costs are high. the israelis have also paid a high price with the hamas attack on october 7. but if you aren't there you can't pass those stories along to readers. then the readers can make up their own mind what you think, but you've got to go in and look at it. you have to take pictures, videos, photographs, and interview people. if you don't do that, then the public outside has a limited view. douglas: hazem, as a journalist who worked in gaza for many years, you had already experienced some severe restrictions on your reporting.

first from hamas and also from israel. how have your experiences impacted your view on the value of a free press? hazem: working in gaza wasn't easy. i have to say it's not a free country. the press is not free. local press and mostly affiliated. there is no industry in the press in the palestinian territories, not only in gaza. that limits the freedom of the press. our work during the past was very hard. you had to deal with different parties. mainly hamas, but others, of course. there were restrictions on many things that we had to fight on

every single thing. sometimes it is really hard. i don't want to praise myself or my colleagues, but being experienced and working with a professional outlet in a professional way, doing your job straightforward would limit restrictions. i got in an interrogation many times before. my view is the same. free press is essential. we fight for it with everybody. working in a place where it is

not one player, there are many players, we have to be careful and cautious about so many things. about politics, ground, it's not easy. during this war free press is very essential and it's important to tell the story of the people on the ground, no doubt about that. i deeply believe that this is important. even when i talk to colleagues, the truth, the truth, only the truth no matter what. douglas: we are about to run out of time so i will leave the last word with you. what do the people here need to know about the current war? william: the current war is

extremely violent. the israelis suffered a deep loss on october 7, but what is happening in gaza is a tremendous amount of violence. gaza has been reduced to rubble and many sectors, the north especially. i think that our colleagues and friends and political people should push harder to let the press into gaza now. six month ago would have been better, but these are our political decisions and partly our weapons and our efforts. i think that the u.s. and international press need to be there on the ground. we are very responsible, we can take our own risks, we are good at this, and we should be allowed in to report the story.

the israelis restricted the press more for this than they have. douglas: with that we are out of time. bill, hazem, thank you for being here, for all of the work you are doing, and stay safe. [applause] douglas: stay with us. my colleague jonathan will be out here next with our concluding panel. please, don't go anywhere. ♪

♪

>> committed to the fundamental practice of accurate journalism where it might not otherwise be practiced these days. >> does that put your people in particular risk? >> it does. >> hello, welcome back. i am the associate editor at the washington post. joining me is the ceo of the committee to protect journalists and the president and ceo of radio free europe radio liberty, and the executive director for our sf usa -- rsf usa.

let's talk about the cb j tracking of journalists that while on the front line, including the names that you can see on the screen behind us that are scrolling up, who were these reporters and how are you investigating the circumstances surrounding the deaths? >> we have documented 97 killings of journalists since october 7, 90 two of them are palestinian journalists. almost all of the journalists killed our gazan journalists working inside of gaza. they include the likes of the -- learn, train, get equipment. there journalists working for their local radio and tv

stations. also freelancers working for organizations like the washington post. the important thing, as we heard in the previous session, is since october 7 no international journalists have been able to get into gaza except on tightly controlled tours, so we are reliant on these gazan journalists to bring us information about the work. jonathan: 97 journalists have been killed since october 7, how many were gazans? jodie: 92. jonathan: steve, bill and hazem told us about the difficulty they had getting access to cover the war. you met with ukrainian president zelenskyy to discuss press access to the front lines of that war. what were the key takeaways from that meeting that you think apply more broadly to press freedom elsewhere? >> ukraine is obviously in a very dangerous situation.

these days, if you want to cover ukraine there is frontline were reporting, which is obviously important. we have a team of journalists committed to covering what is taking place on the front lines. also, there is a tremendous amount happening across ukraine these days. as ukraine pushes to be part of the eu, part of nato, fundamental principles of the free press are absolutely at play. a strong democracy exists only in places where free press is allowed to operate freely without harassment, without intimidation. there is a war in ukraine, but these fundamental principles are essential. jonathan: i promise i will bring you in in a moment, but i have an audience question for jodie from pat in pennsylvania who

asks, what actions can protect journalists in war zones? jodie: one thing that is important to remember is that journalists are civilians, so they need to be protected as any civilian is during a war zone. they shouldn't be targeted. we believe at least three, and at least potentially many more journalists in this war, the israel-gaza war, have been targeted. that is an important factor. making sure that those journalists go in with the proper equipment and proper training to cover the war as safely as possible. that requires governments and militia engaged in that war to respect the rules of war. jonathan: i see you nodding, steve. you don't have to jump in. stephen: look, the protections for journalists take on a lot of different forms. there is the physical protection with the flak jackets, but our

journalists in many ways are the canaries in the coal mine. i know that sting was in town this week so i can cite a police song. what i mean by that is, everywhere we operate increasingly our journalists have to be protected in many different ways. their physical safety is first and foremost what we push for peace. but in places all across our coverage area, there are things like accreditations that are no longer afforded to practicing journalists. that means that they might be declared as having broken laws simply for doing their jobs as journalists. that means that they might have to leave the country, they might have to move on. we need to protect them, their physical safety, but also protect them from harassment, from intimidation.

we now have four journalists in prison. two in belarus, one in russia, one in russia-controlled crimea. we have to protect them as well. jonathan: clayton, it is your time. rsf released its 2024 press freedom index today. what are the top three countries on the list? >> you put me on the spot. i always memorize the bottom. jonathan: then start there. >> we get so focused on the negative that i'm actually glad that you started with the positive, because we don't get to talk about it nearly as much. jodie and i were talking about how world press freedom day should be a celebration about the values of a free press but often we talk about the countries at the bottom,

afghanistan, syria, eritrea, but that belies the broader fact that if you are at the bottom of the index, the bottom 10 or the bottom 20, you are in dishonorable company. these are countries where the free press doesn't exist and journalists cannot be free to do their job safely or independently. they are not listed here, but countries like north korea, there is no free press. china is the world's biggest jailer of journalists. if you look at the top of the list you see countries that have a legal infrastructure that guarantees freedom of the press. when there are instances where journalists come under attack in some way, the court system is very adept at seeking justice. we also see governments that promote the free press guaranteeing the independence of journalistic outlets, there is robust public funding for media

that guarantees the pluralism of voices and outlets that they can enjoy from their governments. jonathan: that explanation explains why the united states is not number one on the list in terms of public funding of media, but the united states was in 40 fifth place last year. it is now at 55th. why did it fall so much? clayton: it was shocking when i saw it, but then i started digging into the data and it made sense the more that a read through the survey results and quantitative data that we collect. we measure five indicators: economic, political, security, legal, and social. the indicator that took the biggest hit was the economic. i don't think that that is a surprise to anyone in this room given the record number of layoffs that have afflicted the

news media industry in the last year and all of the outlets that are closing. the death of local news around the country. i think that every state is net negative on growth of new news outlets which means that news outlets are closing more rapidly than opening around the country. that is a huge concern. we took a step back on the political indicator, a reflection of what appears to be a growing willingness of political leaders in this country to vilify and insult the press. we see politicians call for the jailing of journalists. we see calls for the weaponization of the department of justice against critical media outlets. that impacts the social score. we know that trust in media is at an all-time low and overall makes the profession less safe for everybody. jonathan: i will jump on your last comment. i want to preface this question by saying that i do not mean this in a partisan manner, but i have long wondered the impact of

an american president attacking the free press, attacking journalism? the impact that that has had on the other worldleaders and their view of the role of a free press? am i making too big of a deal of it or is that fundamentally what has been happening? jodie: it has had a measurable impact. it creates an environment in which political leaders feel it is ok to go after the media. they use similar rhetoric. we saw that with bolsonaro in brazil. we saw it with leaders who use similar rhetoric with enemies of the people. what that does is not only create a tone at the top, but it starts to filter down where local politicians also feel like it is ok to verbally insult the media, denigrate the media, and take actions beyond that. we saw near record numbers of jailing of journalists.

people feel emboldened to take actions against journalists who are critical of them and to stifle a free press. not just in the authoritarian regimes at the bottom of the list, but the worrying thing is increasingly that is a play that is being used by supposedly democracy's. this week alone we have seen the arrest of journalists in the u.s. covering protests. i think that is a worrying indicator of what we may see in the run-up to this year's election. stephen: we see it manifesting in the charges leveled against people like evan from the washington journal. he is charged with espionage. when you look at any number of people who get hit with charges of unrest, defaming the military, these are politicized

charges and the political realm -- pushing journalists into the political realm where they do not operate.they are simply there to put a light on the truth. so, when journalists are described in this country as enemies of the people, jodie is right. you see the same rhetoric being repeated. beyond rhetoric, in the form of charges and imprisonment, it doesn't stop. it certainly doesn't help. clayton: itclayton: it is so tr. the rhetoric has a powerful effect. we also know dictators and authoritarians learn from one another. they borrow tactics, so we see the same types of moves used against media and journalists being relegated around the world. -- replicated around the world. we know china is trying to position itself as an exporter

of model control. a lot seems to come from the kremlin's playbook when it comes to censoring data. on the flipside, we can document where we improve the index. priscilla's a good example, switching from a president who regularly attacked and vilified the media to one which is much more respect for love the press and media. jonathan: stephen, i will come to you in a moment, but, jodie, before we move on, more than half of the world will vote in elections this year, making this a "super election year." is there a relationship between press freedom and elections? jodie: absolutely. we rely on journalists to bring also to information to inform

our vote, our ability to vote. knowing that people are trying to take away your right to vote, understanding what the candidates are saying and having journalists test their record. it was great, traditional journalism that uncovered the now criminality of george santos and has seen him ejected from congress. absolutely there is a link. i want to echo steve's point abo ut a canary in the coal mine. this year is indicative not only of the future of a free press but of democracies. how we treat our media in the run-up to these elections is a litmus test for the other freedoms and democratic rights we enjoy are likely to be treated afterwards. jonathan: so let's talk about one of your colleagues. her husband is on your staff.

you see him and their daughters often. give us the latest update and her case. stephen: you can see her photo here. also has worked for radio free europe/radio liberty for more than 25 years now. i can describe her in a number of different ways. she is a colleague but she is the wife and mom of young women who have had to grow up awfully quickly in the last few months she has been imprisoned. she is an american citizen. she went to russia, where her mother lives -- her mother was not doing well last year. and also went back to help take care of her. when she went to leave, she was prevented from leaving care this was supposed to be a two-week trip.

that was last summer. she was prevented from leaving and has now been imprisoned for more than six months. she is a proud and wonderful member of the prague community, where rfe/rl is headquartered. she is one of four journalists imprisoned. when you talk about numbers, it is staggering what cpj has been document in, the number of people's behind bar, but each and every one of these people are individuals. so ihar and andrey, held in belarus, vlad, held in russian controlled crimea, and alsu are in our thoughts every single day. jonathan: you mentioned alsu has two daughters. we have a video from one of alsu's daughters, who has a

message of her own to share. >> today is world press freedom day. my mom, alsu, has been behind bars in russia for six month now because she is a journalist. my sister and i are so proud of her, and we miss her so, so much. she needs to be free immediately, so she can come home to us. free alsu. >> that is a 15-year-old. jonathan: i was about to say, she is 15 years old. stephen: she is a remarkable young woman. a couple weeks ago, they were here in town, and jake tapper of cnn was good enough to host them. at the end of the interview, jake said, why don't you take this opportunity to speak directly to vladimir putin? i think of anyone of us were given the opportunity, the palms would start to sweat, and you

would be nervous and anxious. then cnn pointed her to a couple different cameras, and she just sat there with great poise and delivered an incredibly powerful, pitch perfect message directly to the russian leader, calling for her mom's release. they have had to grow up awfully quickly. they and evan's families have become good friends through this, something that should have never happened, but there is a small community now, but we feel the support, from the beginning, from cpj, from every one of these organizations, including the washington post today, so thank you for doing this. jonathan: we have a little over five minutes left him about one more question for you before i go to clayton. in 2012, when you are my boss, as president of nbc news, chief

foreign correspondent richard engel and his team were objected in syria by armed militants. did that experience prepare you for this? stephen: you realize how quickly moments can change and how you just kind of look into this void and not have any idea what is going on. that incident with syria ended after a very short amount of time. it was an agonizing couple of days. people were not sleeping and things like that, but we brought them home. this now, and if you think about what austin heise -- i heard his mama speak this morning. it has been almost 12 years now for that family. the same with evan's family and alsu's family.

time just starts accumulating, and it is really beyond time to bring them home. we know the president, today, called for their immediate and unconditional release, and we certainly appreciate the words of president biden. jonathan: clayton, you have been nodding and trying to double dutch your way into the conversation. i'm sorry. i would like to get your thoughts on anything, but we do have an audience question for you from adam from d.c., and he asks, do you see a correlation interest in media and press freedom? clayton: absolutely. trust in media -- it's a really symbiotic relationship. one of the ways we measure press freedom is on social score, which really sort of measures of the prestige and the mood of the general public towards journalism. when you have this deterioration of the trust in media, it

enables political leaders to become ever more hostile, because they do not feel like they will suffer consequences publicly or politically. and it degrades the safety conditions for journalists in the field. we have seen so many instances of journalists being harassed, and it also really lowers the bar for the level of anger and vitriol lobbed at the media and make it so much harder to do our jobs. i want to come back to one point on alsu that i would be remiss if i did not make in a room full of potentially powerful people in washington, d.c. is alsu has yet to be designated as wrongfully detained by the u.s. government. that is an important step, because it is a signal from the state department that she is essentially a hostage, that she has been wrongfully arrested for being a journalist, which is objectively true. that designation has been made for many other americans currently being wrongfully held

all over the world. it has yet to be made for alsu, and rsf is disappointed the state department has not yet made that designation. jonathan: jodie, in the literal couple of minutes we have left, in an op-ed in the new york times last week, you wrote, atrocities can be enacted with impunity on all sides. what is your message of warning for governments around the world who are not protecting the rights of the free press? jodie: a free is fundamental to a good covenant. it is fundamental to all of our freedoms and stability and security of our societies. it is reliant on that. if i may, i want to grab 30 seconds to say one of the questions that always comes in about julian assange. this month is his last ditch trial in the u.k.

again, i would encourage the u.s. to drop its charges against julie and assigns. if he is brought here and convicted, that would create a terrible precedent for press freedom everywhere. it is really important the u.s. hold its coming into press freedom. governments have to realize that press is not there to make lives more difficult for governments, it is there so we can make sure we are -- we all have access to the information that we need to live freely safely. it is essential it is protected. jonathan: last words, steve? stephen: i will just say a little note about rfe/rl --we receive our money from congress, but this is an independent news organization. none of our people work for the

government. we are fighting the good fight, and we thank everybody for the support as we continue to go about this vital mission. jonathan: last word, clayton? clayton: there is no freedom without press freedom. it is the freedom on which all other freedoms are based. jonathan: with that, perfect timing. jodie ginsberg, steve capus, clayton weimers, thank you for being here for this conversation today. you can't leave until i finish this last it. thank you all of you here and online for being with us today. our slogan, democracy dies in darkness, is a daily reminder to us all to the imports of a free press. to learn more about our upcoming programming and to take advantage of a free trial sufficient of the washington post, please go to washingtonpost.com/live. again, i am jonathan capehart. thank you all very much for being here today. [applause]

[captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2024] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> we will have more live coveragen c-span later today. at 12:30 p.m. easter a nasa prelaunch news conferenceith administrator bill nelson. he will talk about working with boeing on a public-prive mission to carry astronas to and from the intertional space station. that is live othe kennedy space center. then, little later at 2:00 p.m., the assistant secretary of state and compliance, mallory stewart, talks about reports russia is developing a space-bed nuclear weapon to destroy satellites. also, president biden will award the presidential medal of eedom, the highest civilian honor, 1019 people, including former house speaker nancy

pelosi, and former senators lizabeth dole and john kerry. the ceremony is at 4:30 p.m. eastern, all live here on c-span . ♪ >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government. we are funded by these television companies and more, including sparklight. >> the greatest town on earth is the time you call home. at sparklight, it's our home, too. right now, we're all facing our greatest challenge. that's why sparklight is working around the clock to keep you connected. we are doing our part, so it is a little easier to yours. >> sparklight supports c-span as a public service, along with these other television providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy. ♪ >> today, watch c-span's 2024 campaign trail, a weekly roundup of c-span's campaign coverage, providing a one-stop