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morning on c-span. on c-span.org. click speech of tiktok in the united states or discussion with acxiom stack welcome to the program for. >> thank you for having me. >> take us back in time a little bit about debating this the president. it was the issue at the core? what's this all started about a year ago when energy and commerce committee really quick to issues were highlighted during that hearing. number one is the national security concern. as data privacy concerns with the act. with its owner having too many ties to the chinese government paid the started about a year ago. shortly after words a bill was introduced we have directs the divestment the band of tiktok

frequencies the word band would be a technical ban if it were to go through? works dependency ask the bill authors are adamant clarifying this is not necessarily a bill to ban the app. it gives tiktok the option of finding a different owner put a u.s. owner that is not a national security threat. but, because the silt could be so complicated and politically precarious you can ask tiktok and say it's actually a ban ultimately. >> what time frames because the bill gives tiktok to make these decisions? lexa gives tiktok in nine months the president could extend that by three months so yourve total. >> is go back a little bit. what are viewers who understands it. the parent company, what is it? what are the ties to the chinese cgovernment? >> the parent company's cult bite dance is called has operations in china. the concern is that the chinese government ever wanted to havehe

that company hand over u.s. data it could do so. that is what is concerning for u.s. lawmakers. if you ask tiktok they will tell you all u.s. data is housed in the united states they would not be forced to turn that data over to the chinese government. but thaten did not convince didt lawmakers on capitol from eithei side of the aisle that's where while we arehe where we are too. >> nationals security concerns are part of the concerns and data privacy worst national security command? what's the national security concern comes in with the idea you could do foreign influence campaign on this app there 170 million americans young americans using this application. if the chinese government wanted to spread to certain propaganda the fear among u.s. lawmakers is that they could do so would influence american politics in that way. >> are guest here to talk about the future of tiktok in the united states and lend that legislation viewing to ask questions about democrats two 202-748-8000 demarest

202-748-8001. independence 202-748-8002. event to text us your thoughts 8003 is how you do that. political lines and partisan lines is this a partisan issue it's no it's not has won this unified republicans or democrats on capitol hill. we saw that first during the hearing one tiktok ceo was grilled by both sides of the aisle than the bill cleared the committee it was completely unanimous. and then when it cleared the house and the senate had broad support this is deafly something shared by both parties for quick speaking of that ceo the tiktok ceo got on the platform after the passage of the legislation responding to president biden s signing it here's a portion of what he had to say. then will get your response to it. >> you may have heard congress passed the bill the president signed into law this designed to be an tiktok in the united states that will take tiktok away from you and 170 million americans find community in

connection on our platform. make no mistake this is a ban a ban on tiktok a ban on you in your voice. politicians may say otherwisese but don't get confused but many who sponsored the bill admit a tiktok bank is the ultimate goal. obviously disappointing moment does not need to be a defining one. it's ironic because the freedom of expression of tiktok are the same american values the united states a beacon of freedom. tiktok us everyday americans a powerful way toer be seen and heard.th that is why so many people it made tiktok part of their daily lives. restei assured we are not going anywhere but we are confident will keep fighting for your rights in the courts. the facts and constitution are our side. we expect to prevail again. our community isr filled with people who found acceptance and compassion hurt often inspiration to increase awareness and brought into

perspective ultimate adding or moredelight and joy to their li. our community is also filled with 7 million business owners. we make our case in court you will still be able to enjoy tiktok like you always have. effective use or have tiktok impacts your life we would love forr you to share it. the showcase exactly what we're fighting for.e meanwhile, we will continue to invest keep our community vibrant, exciting and safe. through the data security effort to build safeguards the other company has made. we've invested billions of dollars to secure your data and keep our platform free from outside manipulation butm i cannot sayay this enough for ths extraordinary diverse community is what makes tiktok so special. what makes it matter and what makes it meaningful part will keep working to ensure you always have the opportunity, the safety and freedom toit enjoy al tiktok has to offer. thank you.

>> along response from the ceo of tiktok. we are not going away. very emphatic on his part. whatic is he a set on? >> is driving the confidence this is a fact it's a country with a very strong first amendment protections. he certainly plans to bring this to corporate or probably end up in the supreme court. we will probably be this is a person of violations on millions of users use the app. lexicon suggestion is on our side. >> correct typical essay from jeff is in arkansas. a democrat line for. >> good morning, has ongoing doing today? sweet to good, thank you. >> caller: a quick question. since they are talking about american companies and buying into tiktok, has there been establish any list of companies that are lining up to buy tiktok? >> guest: that is a great

question. it's a very expensive company. so that narrows down the pool of buyers pretty significantly. some potential companies would be able to afford it are meta or google put those two companies already have major social media platforms. instagram, facebook, meta and youtube for google. that could run into some monopoly concerns for too much social media in the hands of one parent company. some other companies might be able to come in and purchase the app. microsoft has been floated. no one has come out and said were interested in buying the app yet. stu and whoever decides it's an american company or another country what scrutiny would go by the federal government to release to interested buyer? it's it might run into antitrust issues with the department of justice or the ftc. but it will definitely be better

then he chinese based company of regulators in washington. so e we went early on former president trump treasury secretary expressed interest possibly and gather a collection of people to buy appraisal of the scholarly work? i don't think it's gone anywhere. as a blitz of the new cycle and i've not heard from edne again t who knows maybe we'll pop back up. she heard from the ceo. as far as influencers those used tiktok for business, what have they said notin only on the platform or how they address this with legislators in d.c.? what's a lot of anger and a lot of disappointment. this is a platform that provided a lot of americans an opportunity not just to express themselves. but to really build businesses. and to make money off of products and businesses and so a lot of people are upset rightht now. one of the tactics, the bill is sprung onto tiktok for they do not see it coming but one of the topp tactics the company use was havingom pop-ups show up on the

app when users would come on. it would say this is your congressman's number, directly called and probably sell with a lot of users calling come offices on capitol hill inundating these offices with request to reject this bill and that actually had the opposite effect to puthe it in could convincece lawmakers to vote in favor of the bill because they saw it as evidence this could be is to mobilize large groups of people and politics in the u.s. spill to sell the president signed the bill. how much expressed concerns as has the company and tiktok itself? >> guest: president biden is definitely supportive of this measure pretty obvious he signed into law. with so many other issues goingu on and has not been the main focus for the white house. obviously there has been support and it went through. stu andhr i read somewhere the president still plans use the platform for his campaign interest even in light of his decision. >> guest: that is right. that is right.

the presidency is different from the campaign. so publicde officials -- make ne in the federal government or on the hill is allowed to use tiktok. that is already been banned for a while is now potentially going to banned for all americans for federal employees it was already not available. there is a little bit of a disconnect there paid the president's faceded criticism fr his campaign using the app. >> host: viewers two 202-748-8000 for democrats republicans 202-748-8001. an independent susie or 27,488,002 if you want to ask a question about the potential benefit tiktok. austin, texas is excellent front right republican line we are with our guests good morning. >> caller: statement i would like to make is the fact that we keep hearing about first amendment right is being violated. tiktok was the only show in town they may be rights.

other apps to the exact same thing. they can easily migrate to those apps. nos one's rights are being violated. i do not know why they keep promoting that hype. >> i hear you. one of the concerns some first amendment scholars might raise as this might set a precedent for other apps to be banned. that is one of the fears. right now it's just tiktok but other apps, depending on who the president is, it could come under scrutiny. and before you know it may be we have a more fragmented internet. not just globally where the internet looks very different and china versus the united states but within the united c states users and creators have less options. that is speculative at this point and it really isn't matter to be watched very quick to talk about the other companies is there a sense of waiting in the wings should this band happen? and they come and fill the gap?

>> absolutely. i think it's 190 minutes it. that's an opportunity for other social maps to come in and take advantage of. >> host: and david joins us from atlanta independent line good morning. >> caller: good morning. >> guest: good morning. >> had two questions one verse one pertains to national security. do you think the chinese government is actually gathering and tracking information on american citizens? the chinese government would allow an american company to purchasekt tiktok? i don't wait for your answer. >> sure. your first question where the chinese government as actually gathering information on american? in 2022 forbes investigation that showed american journalists are being spied on and tracked

by the app. beyond that we know the app tracks our movements. whether or not the chinese government at this point is using that information for anything. but the fear is that they could. into that was the impetus for a lot of lawmakers to act here. and then to your second question, the chinese government allow another american company to buy tiktok? no it for a very, very highly doubt that. even if tiktok did decide to by adifferent parent company the algorithm which makes the app so powerful and useful for other people is probably not going to be sold because he chinese government would intervene in that sense for the algorithm makesth the app. what sort recommended videos keeps on the app for a longer

period of time it's learning what we enjoyau watching. and so a sale of tiktok without the algorithm would not be attractive to a buyer. >> we have a viewer who says the company operates businesses basedd on white van tiktok and mix comparisons why not go further? >> rage. tiktok is abiding by u.s. laws and its parent company is in beijing. the argument is the chinese government could force the company to hand over data regardless of where it isr stord whenever it wants. >> why not make the same kind of analogies? >> that's a very great question the fact of the matter is right now we live in a country that is on a federal privacy law unlike the european union and other developed countries around the world. one of the criticism that lawmakers face when they were pushing forward this law so

forcefully or able to get it through congress tech laws are very rarely passed. would not address the root which is lack of privacy law. one other bill has not gone with the tiktok band is the law that was championed by an ranking member frank colón that would ban data brokers from selling our sensitive information to any country we deem adversary. using data and selling perks of the other countries as secured abouton national security or privacy when it comes to tiktok like the united states? >> yes there are many countries right now that a party band at the app for federal employees and for users. that's pretty widespread at this point, government employees. as far as a band for all people

of that particular country it is much rarer that india has that. but not much else. >> joining us for this discussion she is from paxinos about the band of tiktok but let's hear from alejandra independent line good morning. >> good morning. my question is more or less the national security facebook i moe the comes of that youth in addiction and i understand most people are concerned about national security risk. going to the generation and mental health. >> are cutting out a little bit there. in gist of itthe what's been done about the addiction aspect and used mental health? this is not going to address that issue. we know if tiktok does not prevail in court and it is eventually removed from the u.s. market there are still many other social media companies out

there. another issue congress is working toward is passing laws that would mental health issue and giving parents more controls. putting more responsibilities in the shoulders of companies to be responsible in the products they're pushing on minors. we will see if that clears congress. >> is us from connecticut steven independent line. >> a couple of things. one is a data collection future compromise. the other is algorithmic intelligence too say drive certain events the classic operations in world war ii nature certain events but not to tip their hand but to tip the scales in several events.

collects to influence how we say or think. the chinese intelligence that's my thoughts. what do you think? >> the difference between data connection and intelligence? >> color are you there? >> yes request you clarify whatw you want our guest to answer? >> caller: how do you think chinese intelligence would use tiktok on the american population? because there are laws they can collect what they want in china. cooks if you speak with lawmakers here there is concern the algorithm is so powerful it sexual into a feedback loop of the content you are already engaging with and your kind of in this loop perpetually.

i mention the amount of minutes americans are spending on the app on average for that is a lot of time. that could create echo chambers and reinforce beliefs he already have and limit discourse on the other side. i think this is one of the concerns lawmakers had in the context of the israel/thomas moore they felt the app was suppressing speech. on the other side youth have people saying that was a reflection of the actual discourse happening among young people in the united states rightmo now. that is with the conversations were reflecting. but yes, the algorithm is very powerful. it is not unlike other algorithms and other apps. it's very unique for tiktok. also powerful algorithms and other apps that influence what we think about is for sure. >> there is a since legislation is put this information won't wl miss information from platforms

primarilysi tiktok. >> is anotherti concern more americans than ever are getting news from social media that includes tiktok. that is an issue that egg exists. >> larger question from a viewer in california asking you what social media platforms should be treated like publishers. >> it is a great question. it comes down to the content and who is a moderating that content. platforms of moderate their own content but it's us the users that are deciding what goes on there. they are not necessarily liable for that. that is unlike publishers that are liable for content they publish but one of the biggest debates should we make these platforms liable for the content that's on their platforms? the idea has always been we shouldn't because that could

lead to these companies deciding what we see, what we don't see it's better to be left to the hands of americans. that's another very active debate on capitol hill is how to handle that liability question. >> assist from kevin, cabot and minnesota independent line. >> good morning. i remember this going on a couple years ago president trump said he was going to ban tiktok and less they gave us like $10 billion. what happened with that? >> the tiktok efforts under former president trump did not go anywhere. they were held up in court. we know now he made some same as on the campaign trail he would not move forward with the ban on tiktok. they will beat wins for the other big tech companies he flip-flopped on that issue. not totally clear why. >> ian ndc, democrat line.

>> i'm sorry, good morning. i am wondering if this was too narrow. should we be worried the company can change names or resold to another entity? and then the legislation would not' cover this? >> is an excellent question. this has been reported out as a tiktok band or did best bill but the language would target any company that's owned or controlled by a foreign threats. not even just china but other countries we deem foreign threats north korea, ironic, all of these other countries. we do not have clear examples of apps coming from those right now. built writers were looking toward the future if there's an app like that it would be covered under this bill pay. >> to a larger question is there a way to understand how tiktok became so popular? >> it gave a lot creators and

young people a platform to express themselves i think the algorithm itself the short form video was very unique and revolution it was different from youtube for you have a longer videos and people could spend hours on one rabbit hole of videos. but wither tiktok it was very quick easy hits. before you know it more than an hour has passed that is gained a lot of popularity that waiver rex tom joins us in georgia independent line. hi there. >> i just want to say this entirely new situation and world politics. i thought this is unusual. we have a form that's owned by an admitted adversary. there are some issues espionage or foreign infiltration who knows what.

these are the problems. this is anor opportunity for bin to show us his colors which she might already have. but to show his colors the chinese only platform to help get elected. >> i think your point this been totally new is a great point. propaganda is not illegal in the united states. but to spread it any more limited publication only reaches a certain amount of people versus a social media platform but 170 million people are on for long periods of the day is a totally new question that is one of thing the courts are going to have to grapple with that so interesting the way technology has change the freedom of speech

and first amendment conversation and rights of progress the u.s. already has is issued to china to what degree does this further the issues of china? lexis exacerbates u.s. china relations are more tense than ever. the united states government directly going after one of china's most successful social media applications pretty party seen the chinese government asking apple to remove some u.s. social media platforms. and i think this is all going to add to a more fragmented internet a more fragmented global internet we are not freely communicating with other people around the world right now it's the u.s. and china first amendment scholars do have serious concerns this will lead to less communication and a less open information system. >> once more if you could walk you through what to expect when

it takes a look at the potential band. what we look over the next few months? >> you can expand tiktok lists going to go to the courts. filmic first amendment arguments against the bill the court proceedings are done. that could take months. and then after words it would be nine months for bytedance to divest from tiktok than the present to give them an additional three months. so it more than year at this point before americans start to feel any impact. and then after words i think what would happen is the apple stores would have to stop carrying the app and americans would slowly stop being able to use it for. >> omar call from michelle in illinois, democrats linero hell. >> hi, good morning. just a quick question.

i was wondering what about the millions of jobs and businesses that have been created off of this platform? hasn't congress said anything about those businesses that will have to shut her after a year should this not know the way they're planning? >> that is a legitimate concern you have a lot of small business owners and creators raising this concern. but lawmakers would say is trite moving to a different platform. the national security concerns are more important are there other options for small business owners although it is disruptive. it's a definitely going to impact a lot of people who are relying on the app right now. stuart asked theo's.com. bytedance is a tech policy reported buying her work there