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it's, tuesday, april 23 right now on cnn this morning, day two of testimony in donald trump's hush money trial. but first a hearing to determine whether the former president violated the judge's gag order new information about promises of a pardon made by trump in his classified documents, case and pro-palestinian protests erupting on college campuses in new york and across the country. >> all right 6:00 a.m. here in washington. alive. look at new york city on this tuesday morning worth first donald trump is going to be in court

again today. good morning, everyone. i'm kasie hunt it's wonderful to have you with us in less than four hours. we're going to have a hearing to determine whether donald trump has violated the judge's gag order, possibly as many as ten times in his criminal hush money trial after court adjourned yesterday, trump might have done it again. >> what are they going to look at all the lives that in the last trial court lying in the last trial so he got caught lying pure so the issue is that donald trump is under a gag order. he is not allowed to be talking about witnesses in the case. michael cohen, you could argue, is the star witness that may come with its own challenges but after trump's gag order hearing this morning, jurors will return to the courtroom for day two of testimony. david, the former publisher of national enquirer, will be back on the stand. he is a critical piece of the prosecution's plan to try to prove that trump acted with criminal intent when he tried

to silence adult film star stormy daniels. weeks before the 2016 election, our panelists here, former federal prosecutor jean rossi, chief national affairs correspondent, jeff zeleny, jonah goldberg he's co-founder and editor in chief of the dispatch and new york times journalists lulu garcia-navarro welcome to all of gene, let me start with you on the schrag order or question because i've to say that the wall street journal, their lead editorial, tries to make a distinction between the jurors in the case, regular americans, we have to make a decision here. >> and someone like michael cohen, because let's show everyone what michael cohen had to say on twitter back to donald trump. >> i'm not going to read it just because our discourses is what it is. i'm not going to be the beginning of it. he just says your attacks on me, stink of desperation. you can read the rest of it. we're all hoping that you take the stand in your defense. it does seem like there should be a difference between michael cohen and the jury pool in terms of what trump is allowed to do, perhaps because cohen is already someone who has been dragged into this very publicly

the entire time. do you see a distinction and how do you think the judge is going to handle it? >> okay. i do see a distinction practically because michael cohen is poking the bear and he's getting under donald trump skin and that's why donald trump had that little press conference. what bothers me is that when donald trump made that statement last night to his left, was his lawyer that troubles me greatly because the because the lawyer is condoning conduct that arguably is violating a gag order. and i guarantee you the judge merchan is going to reprimand todd blanche a little bit, but at the end of the de the judge is not going to do anything to donald trump, violate the gag or porter absolutely good lawyer, you're referring to on the left? exactly. but if it were any normal defendant, he'd be cuffed or find. >> but because it's president trump, mr. trump is going to be a slap on the wrist. >> when i mean, the fact that we're here says so much about

i guess everything we've been through as a country for the last few decades. >> but what do you make of that argument here? because i mean, nobody really can control jabal, donald trump. i mean, i guess you can hold the lawyer accountable. >> yeah. >> look, i think that's a microcosm of the larger dilemma his lawyers have, which is that i think the legal strategy almost entirely play is built around trump's ego and branding on this, he doesn't want to concede that he did anything wrong whatsoever, kinda reminds me of the first impeachment where he just my conversation was perfect, not like, hey, you know, maybe i could have phrased it differently. and what you much easier thing for a lawyer to defend. it was perfect, right the legal strategy going into this is trump did absolutely nothing wrong, no affair. everything was perfect. and that's just a much higher bar with a jury to defend, but it's sort of it's what donald trump i think is insisting on across the board have to prove right that he actually did it. what they have to prove is that he was you had this intent. and

so i am i am i am i getting this right or am i good? right. okay. thank you not the lawyer here that's why just wanted problems. >> you're right. what is the legal? and might not work with the public. and so he what he really needs to send a message two is like, look, this is political persecution. i did nothing wrong. that's the message that he sending to the country. >> can i just say something? i can't believe that these jurors who are not sequestered are not going to hear a little bit about what he's doing outside the courtroom before the trial. and after the trial. and i'll guarantee you you're going to find out after a verdict if it is unfavorable to mr. trump, you're going to hear that jurors were tainted by newspaper articles or things that they should not have seen. how can you can't walk down the

street in new york without exactly yeah, the poster that today. >> but like you just got to see it, i think that's a big mistake. they were not sequestered, even put them in a hotel. they sequester jurors all the time. in this is probably going to be a six-week trial. if we're the eastern district, virginia, it'd be two weeks, but it's going to be a six-week trial. they should have been sequestered definitely jeff zeleny. >> what do you think he is trying to accomplish politically with what he's doing outside the courtroom. >> look, he's trying to do what he's been doing, pretty successfully for the last year. every criminal case has rallied his base and his supporters so he's saying in the hallway, the courtroom, i could be in florida or georgia. the reality is, he doesn't campaign during the week. anyway i cannot recall a time where there's been a monday campaign rally or a tuesday campaign rally. so he usually campaigns on weekends. there's no doubt this is cutting into his campaign time to an extent but the bigger thing is he's just trying to again show that he is being persecuted. but what we don't

know is there's a different audience now, the general election audience is different than the primary audience. so i was watching a lot of the coverage of this yesterday on television and watching it on fox, a lot. and they barely talking about it. >> so donald trump's supporters are going to hear one thing. and that is his hallway press conference. >> they are not going to likely hear a lot of the rest of it. >> so at the end of the day, we do not know what the politics of this is going to be a for him. but he clearly is growing agitated. and this is just david never mind the other witnesses who are coming during this so do something though when you see this image of him coming out of the courtroom, i don't think this is a good image for him. i mean, this is a drab building it's going to be repetitive in terms of the kinds of visuals that you have. it's always the same thing with him standing in the hallway and him looking agitated, angry, and frankly saying the same things over and over it again. i mean, i don't think that this is actually going to help him. some people argue that this is going to

rally his base further. we've seen evidence of that, but i just don't think that it's going to do him any favors in the long term, jonah, if this was televised, would it be better or worse for trump i think probably worse just because seeing him fall asleep is not a great look, right an order this rendition of it just doesn't have the same sort of impact the prosecutor reading the access hollywood stuff would have had more impact, but he would have enjoyed him or he may would have stayed awake if the cameras i mean, i think it was unable to. >> you would look at that defense table that is something we've never seen donald trump, at least in the last decade or so. so i agree with jonah. absolutely worsen can i just add something last thought? health. >> six weeks is a long time. i prosecuted a lot of cases like defended the stress it puts on you as the defendant is enormous. and this is the first couple of days. he doesn't look good. he doesn't really, really given point. all right. come on up next to your new cnn reporting on an alleged pardon offered to one of donald

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future of soda is now in it's called poppy every weekday morning, cnn's five things has what you need to get going with your day. >> it's the five essential stories of the morning in five minutes or less cnn's five things with kate bolduan, streaming weekdays exclusively on macs welcome back. >> newly released documents reveal a potentially explosive new development and donald trump's classified documents case. according to notes from an november 2022 interview with the fbi, the former president's boat, people and quote, offered a pardon to his co-defendant, walt nauta, in the event that nauta was charged with lying to federal investigators, the notes say

this quote, nauta was told by fpotus people that his investigation was not going anywhere, that it was politically motivated and much ado about nothing now was also told that even if he gets charged with lying to the fbi, fpotus former potus will pardon him in 2024. nauta was charged last june with lying to the fbi and obstructing special counsel jack smith investigation. our panel is back. gene, how significant is this? because it basically looks like they were telling him, hey, you should lie because will protect you. absolutely. >> when i prosecuted cases back in the day the substantive charges were important, i used to love witness tampering. i loved obstruction of justice because i loved it because it goes through their state of mind in their guilty conscience that is an example of a state of mind and guilty conscience. now, here's the problem. who's people is it, is, it, is it greedo? who's talking to bhabha, who's talking to donald trump, is there are three layers of hearsay or is

it donald trump saying to this person, go tell nada, i got a pardon in my pocket for you we don't know that. >> right. it seems difficult to build like a pardon in my pocket for you i mean, jonah, it does seem to suggest that they knew just how bad this was though oh for sure. i think so. i think that's right. it's also worth pointing out, like in the original constitutional debates about the pardon power and mp or the impeachment. it was giving pardons to basically cronies and henchmen for nefarious reasons was cited as one of the causes. one of the justifications for impeachment, even if it's not a crime. and remember those debates about how it's not a crime. you can't impeach someone for it. this was an example of a non crime that was considered impeachable at the time and it just sort of gets lost in the miasma. >> yeah. >> jeff, i mean, what does it signal to you about their view of how damaging this case potentially was politically for trump. >> look, i think they knew that there are a few people who were more in the orbit, more than

than a waltz. i mean, he was at the president side constantly here. >> and he's one of the examples of someone who's is still beholden to the former president for legal advice, they're paying his cost of his legal bills. >> i believe still. and look i'm missing something that they can't deliver. they don't know that he's gonna be reelected at this point. but it clearly they were trying to, uh, he knows more than most people know because he was with them in mar lago in bedminster, et cetera. so i think that's very revealing. >> gene. how does when you have cases like this? i now to sort of relative power to trump is pretty low, right now. >> he's right now and so how does that kind of impact what happens with defenses? >> excellent question. when you have multiple defendants at a trial and i have you always have the big, big kahuna, if you will, mr. trump. but if you have a minnow or somebody that's lower level when a jury goes into that deliberation room at the end of the day.

they're going to say, you know what i think he's guilty as sin, but we're going to cut this minnow a break, but it's bad news for mr. trump because they will come compromise to let not ago or have a hung jury, but they will focus like a laser beam. i'm mr. trump at the documents trial. >> yeah, of course. that's not exactly how it's playing for announces so far, but we shall see jean. thank you very much for joining us. i really appreciate how many today. >> coming up next pro-palestinian protests breaking out on another new york college campus. >> we've seen some across america as well. and later we're live outside the new york courthouse where a hearing is about to take place to determine whether donald trump should be held in contempt of court the white house correspondents dinner live saturday at seven eastern khan, cnn. >> can the riva support your brain health, mary janice, hey, eddie now appraiser, franck. >> frank bred. how are you? >> fred fuel up to seven brain health indicators, including your memory, joined the neretva

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million people encompass some sort of frost or freeze alert at this time. so really a cold-start to your tuesday for much of the east coast, you don't have to be below freezing for this to be sensitive for your vegetation outside if you've just recently planted some of those garden vegetables or flowers perhaps, but certainly the further south you had, temperatures are modifying nicely and this is a picture perfect tuesday for many locations from nashville, atlanta, all the way to little rock, high pressure in control of the weather. and we'll say goodbye to the below average temperatures and welcome in the springlike weather that will end off the week. but of course, with spring comes the potential for severe weather. and we're going to focus our attention on the nation's midsection four the thursday and friday. this particular area has the potential for some stronger storms today, just a few showers throughout the great lakes, isolated severe weather across texas, but it's really thursday and friday where things start to get cooking across oklahoma nebraska, and into kansas as well all right. >> be careful out there. are weatherman, derek van dam,

derek thank you. >> all right. all right. next here we have live outside the new york courthouse. we're just hours from now prosecutors will argue donald trump has violated the gag order. >> plus, did the biden administration overstepped by imposing new regulations? >> on ghost guns can the riva support your brain health? mary janet, hey eddie. know, fraser, franck. frank bred. how are you fred, fuel up to seven brain health indicators, including your memory, joined the neretva brain health challenge innovation in health care means nothing if no one can afford i'd ever were helping to unlock barriers using are 35 plus years of pharmacy benefits management experience to save businesses billion while boosting medication adherence, helping plan sponsors and their members b. their best that's

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granger.com or just that granger are the ones who get it done you open your mailbox and see the envelope from your health insurance company. >> you hold your breath will they pay for your child's treatment this time you open the letter and find that you've been denied. again a month later, another letter arrives your premiums are going up again they are banking record profits and still plan on increasing their rates by 12% how can the health insurance companies get away with this? >> cnn central welcome back a few hours from now, a judge in new york will hear arguments about donald trump potentially violating his gag order. >> trump has been barred from attacking witnesses and jurors. prosecutors say he has violated that order at least ten times. cnn's brynn jin grass joins us from outside the courthouse in

new york city. brynn. good morning to you. how do you expect this hearing to play out morning? >> yeah. kasie. so at 9:30 this morning, when court gets underway, we're going to have that hearing about that gag order or that gag order hearing and essentially what the judge needs to determine is if donald trump violated it. prosecutors are saying that, like you said, he violated it ten times. remember that gag order essentially says that he cannot talk ill about or on social media about the members of the jury of witnesses, of family members of the prosecution, family members of the judge, and they say they want him find that thousand dollars for each time he violated it. in addition to that, they said in court paperwork that they would like the judge to remind donald trump that he is a defendant in this case and like all criminal defendants, he's subject to court's supervision. so we'll see how that exactly plays out. meanwhile, the feud between donald trump in his former fixer, michael cohen, who is a main witness in this case. >> it continues. >> of course, we have seen them go back and forth on social

media, but then we also heard donald trump talk about him to the media yesterday. take a listen she got in trouble for were things that had nothing to do with me get in trouble. >> he went to jail. this had nothing to do with me now of course, some of the reasons that michael cohen did go to prison was because of donald trump. that is a proven fact. however, michael cohen did respond on twitter saying essentially that his attacks stink of depression. so we'll see how these to play it out while this gag order is reviewed. >> after that gag order hearing happens this morning, kasie, later this morning at 11:00, the jurors are going to come back into the courtroom and prosecution is again, going to call back the witness that they had on the stand yesterday for just a few not really long at all, 30 minutes or so, david, he is the former publisher of the national enquirer. >> remember, prosecutor say he was a coconspirator in this entire scheme that is at the heart of this trial. so we'll

expect to see him talk about and lay out how possibly that scheme allegedly worked. kasie all right. >> brynn, i appreciate your polite reading of the michael cohen tweet. i thank you very much good luck today. all right. for more on this is joining yes now is former republican governor of iowa, also the former ambassador to china under president trump. terry brand said, mr. ambassador, governor, thank you very much for being here. >> good. morning, gazi i be hard for me not to call you, governor. >> i'm not going to lie since that's where i first say that you're right most i one's called me governor because i serve longer as governor than anybody else in history of the whole united states, never lost an election fair enough sir. >> i do really very much appreciate it. i want to get your reaction simply as someone who, as you point out has seen so much in our country in republican politics what it's

like to watch the presumptive nominee of your parties sit in a courtroom the way donald trump is this week well, circus in it, it's obvious, it's political democrats in new york and other places. >> just don't want to have to run against donald trump because biden's record is a disaster compared to what trump did is president and i think they're afraid to run against him. so they want to keep him tied up in court for the whole campaign. although i just don't think the american people by that, they want to see a real election. they just don't want to see this political circus so do you not think that it's possible for this jury in new york to give donald trump a fair trial? well i think there's a really questionable it's a very stacked and of course you've got a biased judge whose

daughters raising money for the democratic party. and you've got all kinds of issues here that make it very questionable whether you can get a fair trial do you think there's any danger at all in declaring that it's not possible for the justice system to be fair. >> i i mean, don't we all, as citizens need to have faith in the system? >> well that's a problem. american people have lost faith in the system because of the political nature of what's going on here. i really believe that in the end, the political, the legal system will work its way and obviously, whatever happens here in this trial court can be appealed at the state level and eventually probably to the supreme court. this could take a long period of time. i don't think the american people really want to see this they want to see a genuine camp vein on the issues

how can we make america better? people are not happy with the direction as country with open border inflation and all those issues. and that's what i'll be talking about. not these political trials do you believe that whoever donald trump's selects as his vice presidential nominees should be someone who says that they would have done something different from what mike pence did on january 6 i don't think that's really relevant. i think they need to focus on the future and say what they want to do to close the border to reduce inflation & to reduce the cost let's of people buying things at the grocery store and at the gas station.

they really want to see addressing the issues that they care about not that the political class cares about and frankly, i think focusing on the past as a mistake. we need to focus on the future and how we can make america great again so let me ask you to put on your hat as the former us ambassador to china and ask you about the tiktok ban that was included in this foreign aid package? >> that does seem likely at this point to move forward. do you think that bytedance should be forced to sell tiktok to continue to operate in the and how do you think the chinese are looking at that? >> well, the trainees love to be able to influence america and america youth. and i think this is very dangerous to our national security into the privacy of american citizens.

so i'm glad to see the bipartisan support to require the chinese to sell tiktok to someone else do you think that the chinese have that the chinese communist party has taken actions around american data and tiktok. >> do you think that's something that they've done? >> well, they've done a whole lot of things. of course they had the balloon that flew across america. they have spies, they have people coming into the southern border of the united states now and so there's a lot of reasons why we need to be careful to protect our security and protect the privacy of our citizens all right ambassador, governor brands dead at thank you very much for your time this morning, sir. >> i really appreciate having you while you're welcome. >> thank you. casey donald trump, defending mike johnson publicly as the house speaker faces escalating threats from the right wing of his party

that criticism has intensified since johnson passed a $95 billion foreign aid package in the house with democratic support, trump standing by the speaker on a conservative talk show monday, he said, quote, we have a majority of one, it's not like i can go and do what everyone wants to do. >> i think he's a very good person. i think he's trying very hard panel is back. >> jeff, what are you what do you make of trump finally saying publicly, okay i got your back kind of sort of will look, he invited him down to mar-a-lago a couple of weeks ago and that picture of speaker johnson standing next to the former president at mar-a-lago. >> it doesn't get any more supportive than that. so look, is the former president going to essentially love this foreign aid bill? no, but he does not want a messy speaker fight. i think that's at the root of all this. we'll see how long his support for mike johnson lasts. but for now at least i think it's very significant that he is just saying, look, we have a majority of one. i mean, what is he supposed to do? he has a very hard job. so to me, it seems like he is giving as much

support is humanly possible in this era for the speaker. and essentially some of his advisers behind the scenes are a telling marjorie taylor greene just sort of zip it. we'll see if that happens or not. >> yes, she knows what's so interesting to me is one thing is his tepid, very tepid support for the speaker. but the other is his lack of control of the far right of his own party. i mean, this is to me the most interesting dynamic, the fact that we all have to discuss what marjorie taylor greene thinks is, i think a very very sobering moment for this country. >> although it's worth pointing out like the only three people were for the motion to vacate right now or marjorie taylor greene, paul gosar, and thomas massie. i think that's one of the reasons i, other republicans don't want to join because who wants to be the fourth on that weird mount rushmore of criminality and weirdness and whatever, right. >> and so so criminality, the wrong word, greatness is probably better. but i think that the trump, basically mike

johnson, is the crucial jenga piece, that if they pull him out the gop caucus collapses and we're in a bizarro situation. we're donald trump is worried that republican chaos might make him look bad and i think that's my job has been interesting statement. their house yeah. i mean, it threatens our house majority and he knows how important a majority in the house so i think that's at the root of all this, not some love for mike johnson, but you're right. i mean, they've not been able to control marjorie taylor greene. we'll see what happens now, because bannon says that a very different thing on the radio show. a lot, sort of supporting marjorie taylor greene, but we'll see what donald trump says. he's clearly distracted if he was sort of more engaged in this minke might be talk more about this, but for now, speaker johnson has to be breathing a sigh of relief and backed he is, i'm told because of this tepid support or not, it's still support. its report. it is still support. >> well, jonah wouldn't you make it i mean, they're

calling her moscow marjorie, right on the front on the front page of the new york post how does that i do i am confused about why she is considering all these dynamics doing this isn't just for her own attention. >> yeah, it was part of the problem we have in our politics today is because, because the both parties are so weak, it is very easy for politicians swears gains market taylor greene alexandria, ocasio-cortez, to raise as amounts of money outside of the party apparatus from small donors just by being gad flies and marjorie taylor greene raises a lot of money by, by peddling a lot of nonsense about ukraine. and i think she believes her own bs at this point and it doesn't threaten her individually political speaks for a side of the party. >> i mean this isn't cheap. i mean, let's be honest here. she isn't just, you know articulating her own whims. i mean, she is actually she's able to raise money because people actually believe what she says and there's a part of the party that actually supports her and her viewpoints. so i mean, this is

why she is actually important, but what i don't understand exactly is how is she going to move this forward? she is now seen as obstructive. she is seen as a problem for trump& that ultimately puts her position in the party in no one ever used her of being a four-dimensional chess player, right? i mean, i think she she, she has goldfish memory and lives in the moment and she's just a? creature of the internet as well. >> and then when you're majority is so slim and you change the rules to allow any single person to vacate the chair. >> this is where we get harder all right. >> coming up next, taylor swift swiftly breaking a major streaming record plus pro-palestinian protests spreading on college campuses across the country kinda riva support your brain health mary janet, hey, eddie know, fraser, franck, frank bred. how are you, fred fuel up to seven brain health indicators, including your memory, joined

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kits and keep a record of who purchases them was dismissing republican senate candidate kari lake's case, challenging the use of electronic voting machines in arizona wake filed the case during her failed 2022 but notorious bid nasa is back in communication with voyager 1 for the first time in five months, the space craft, which is about 15 billion miles away, has been stuck in a data loops since november the mission team received the first coherent data this week another record shattered by a taylor swift, her latest album, the tortured poets department. now, the most streamed album on its first de, a stunning 300 million streams names on friday on spotify alone. it took just 12 hours are let's turn now to the crisis that's unfolding on college campuses across the country. as pro-palestinian

protests escalated, schools like columbia, nyu, mit, the university of michigan, and yale stoking fears of anti-semitic violence and resulting in dozens of students arrests at columbia university. the turmoil has forced the school to hold hybrid classes for the rest of the semester out of concern for students safety. and that lawmakers a jerseyemocratic congssman josh got homer >> columbia and beyondhere are our demands. now congressman got timer joins us now congressman is good to see you. thanks for being here good to see you. thanks for having me. >> so you arof course, celebrating passoverwant to note tt particularly

troublinthat we're seeing so much of this as that is going on. what did you see the ground of columbia yesterday? >> well, we had two students who were kind enough to take us through campus before talking to us about what they're experiencing. and saw the enchantments signs, and screaming and yelling and clearly what we heard from the students who feel intimidated eir frnds who haveeen bout yelled at and screamed at intimidated, threated when going to class or trying to leave their dorm room going to the library so it is created place that does not feel se backgrounds and races and religis in the bottom line is that's where it should be welcome for all students and of course, for civil discourse and

constructive dialogue should be encouraged, not this sort of intimidation, yelling and violence congressman the rabbit, there's a rabbi associated with colombia who told jewish students that they should return home what was your reaction to hearing that? part, of why, i was there yesterday with three other micah, three colleagues, was to make it clear that they should feel safe. they must feel safe that the university has to provide an environment for them where they feel safe. imagine sending your child off to college and obviously spending a pretty penny for it and they're not safe and negative worried if they're gonna be safe and so what i think i think that's unacceptable that they can't rabbis to say that they can't even feel safe on the campus. and i think that it echoes a huge responsibility now that many of my colleagues are calling for, that these university presidents across the country step up and provide a safe space for all students.

>> whether you're jewish you know, antisemitism, islamophobia. again, no attacks on anybody nope, no hate and encouraged civil, constructive discourse. and i think that's what everyone should expect, that of a college campus would you feel safe sending your kids to columbia in this environment after when i saw yesterday, i'll be very concerned. >> right. i mean, i understand why parents are very concerned and frankly, you heard what people have been screaming out. we are all hamas and there was another student who apparently screamed out and one of the protesters iqs in cabinets. never forget october 7. that'll have not one more time. not happen. to 1,000 more times, but 10,000 more times. so you can imagine how you would feel if you were a student there. and what that muscle be like for them do you think the president of colombia should resign i really think it's up

to the board of trustees. i think the president of colombia must act i mean, i think the president was at congress, gets two weeks ago and spoke out against by semitism. and so there's no place for it, which i strongly agreed with, but now it's time for action, not just words. and so this is a big moment for the president of colombia. and frankly for presidents across the country saw this at yale and other places in recent days where they have these campments& where students areeing threatened ointimidated and the question now for all of these presidents is, will they step up to the moment and do the right thg? and that's what we should expect fr them to act not just to talk and i just for words, but tually for action and tmake all are you looking for i think n specifically at columbia for instance the president started by saying there's no place for

these center of these encampments in front of a library where students can go in, where people are screaming and yelling and are blocking people on intimidating students more kids can't leave their dorm or sty. that's gog to end. you've got to take that down and say this is not how we're going to do this, right? if you want to first amendment, you want to protest. that's fine. here's how you protest. you want to provide an environment for a civil discourse. actually bring people together, have a dialogue, right? it's not always going to be a friendly dialogue, but you can have a constructive hello and that's the way through the inner president and how they should do this. but, but you don't want allow us going on right now. you ended the fact that they had to go online hybrid because right. to have for classes for the rest of the semester that they can't let students meet in the classroom because students don't feel safe as the rabbi said, you have to go home that is not what should be expected. acted at columbia or any college. and i'm expecting the president of colombia to step up and fix that. and the bottom line is, there's federal funding that goes to these universities. so that everybody, they have legal

obligation to make everybody to protect all students. and under title six that's the expectation we expect that from congress at these universities and i'm hoping they step up to this moment, to the moment and they've to do so now do you think federal funding should be revoked from universities that don't take the action you're talking about? >> i think there shod be title six investigations when you have when you have instances like this, and i thk many of us havcalled for them and ihi the department education is investigating many of these colleges. and i think tha's the right apopriate ep. >> all right. congressman josh got homer. thank you very much for beg with uas the bank holidays here, toothank you. >> thank jonah goldberg just how oubling is this and how did we get to this point gosh, you got an hour weave that's minutes. >> i think the's a long tradition of campus protests in this country that goes back to before the founding it has gotten much more intense. we're

at schools and they considered part of your academic experience, your college experience to be protesters. and i think that sort of encouragement gives a lot of administrators a blind eye to when these things go off the rails. i think the antisemitism stuff, particularly passover, is a big issue to legitimate issue to talk about it's a serious issue and i think there's a lot of anti-semitic stuff going on out there. but when you're saying you're hamas, when you're praising hamas, when you're praising hizballah when you're saying you're going to globalize the intifada, excuse me. >> i'm so sorry. yeah, i'm not i'm sorry. but i'm going to finish my point. it needs your pro terrorist if you are celebrating hamas, you are protests, not disputing that what i'm setting my point. yeah. but what i'm saying is they are selective quotes that have been taken often not from students themselves in the encampments in columbia. they have said this, there are jewish students who are actually part of this and they are being used just to sit, wait, let me let me let me finish my point. and, just would say more broadly, when

people are calling for action, like representative god, what are they actually calling for? you've already had holiness go on. if there are if the people in those encampments, whether they're columbia students or not, if the university can clear them from that encampment and that is something the university can do. but they've already put, let me, let me just say how we got here the columbia chose to bring police to clear the encampment that inflamed situation to where now you're seeing these protests spread to yale, to new york university and beyond i am many people have said that the action of bringing police into a group of people who are already feeling that they are representative of the oppressed, who are inspired by what happened with george floyd in 2020 and seeing what is happening in gaza, that that has only really acted as a catalyst here. and so i wonder at the wisdom of bringing in the arm police into what is essentially a university

campus. there to question the wisdom of having a double standard that says it's okay to shout hateful terror, pro terrorist things at jews. but you can't, you have to have a little sourcing that a lot of people are endorsing that a lot of people aren't condemning it yeah, a lot of people foreign condemning it. and i, i agree with you universities and the democratic party in the left had a huge problem trying to figure out how to cut this gordian knot that they've created for themselves. but that doesn't mean i have to condone or not call out is spent. i got a lot of scar. it's been calling out horrible statements on the right over the last ten years. i call out anti-semitism and bigger all the time on the right, cool. i don't hear a lot of that from squad adjacent type people calling out this stuff on the left. so john fetterman had put out a tweet yesterday saying, like, we are very close to charlottesville for some of this stuff. >> do you agree with that? >> i think the comparison can go too far, but i think joe biden statement yesterday where he basically basically did. they're good people on both sides kind of thing was not the

kind of moral clarity, the written statement was pretty good. but democrats have a huge problem here because there's a big chunk of biden's coalition that does not like to hear criticism of any of this anti-israel stuff. and they don't know how to get out of it. >> and the pure politics of this is, we've not seen campus protests like this since the vietnam era. so for the political fallout of this, the young voters, part of biden's coalition. you're absolutely right. president biden is not welcome on campuses. we'll see how this flares up during commencement addresses which are coming up next month. will the president speak at any commencements? well, the first lady, others so this is not solely about domestic politics. obviously, it's bigger than that, but it has a huge following inventions, the democratic convention coming up. >> i mean, talk about what we're going to see there. i think that's jonah has mentioned this in the past and i think that that's exactly right. i'll also just say one other thing. we're really not talking about the heart of this, which is what is actually happening in gaza. and that is of course what is inflaming this entire situation. and that is really what the biden

administration is trying to find. and i just keep coming back to jonah's point though, right. the reason why this has become such a flashpoint and obviously they've been incidents across at different campuses. but to your point, again, i mean, we just heard josh not hammer say that he was there. you heard people saying october 7 again, 1,000 times 10,000 times. i mean, what it does seem if you're a jewish students shouldn't you be able to attend the classes you're paying lots and lots of money for without me to hear that yeah. >> look, i mean, like we we we spent a long time in the last ten years talking about all these speech code things, about all these like a hypersensitivity, things about triggering words. but somehow gas the jews, go back to poland. all of that kind of stuff. well, that's complicated. i don't think it's complicated, katie. >> that's horrific. >> but when you're talking about the column mission, call it the cops to get those. what i'm not i'm not saying that they shouldn't. >> i'm saying that that has inflamed the situation. fair. and that is i mean, i'm just talking about what the result has bear